Help with Old Testament

[CatholicCrusader]

I need help proving the Old Testament to someone who is unsure of her religion (she believes in God), but she does not want to believe stories in the Old Testament, which she sees as "far-fetched" and unrealistic. For example, Jonas. She does not think it is very likely or reasonable that anyone would be swallowed up by a fish. I explained how he prefigured Christ (the three days in the fish, etc., etc.). I have not studied much with proving these types of things as I have in proving protestant apologetics. Anything you can do will help. She is a very reasonable person, and when she classified herself as "Christian" about a year ago, I disproved sola fide and sola Scriptura to her. She basically then became a "Christian" who didn't believe in faith alone or bible alone. After I left her school, though, I didn't talk to her for a long time. I just talked to her for about 1 1/2 hrs about a lot of things, among them this topic. So, if anyone has any good arguments for someone like this, I would greatly appreciate it. (I already said: if you believe in an omnipotent God, it is then POSSIBLE that He could do this, since He is all-powerful; she then said: I don't see any reason for Him to do it, though). Basically, anything can help. Sorry for the rambling... it's late and I was talking to her out in the cold... thanks.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

One thing we might want to tell her: (I would like it if someone backed me up, and make sure i am not wrong.)

The OT stories are not all Historically accuarate...and they weren't all written to be historically accurate. spending 3 days in a whale could mean Jonah was exiled for 3 days on a boat...

I am positive, but I am pretty sure that the stories are representations of ways God manifested Himself to them. It is the New Testament that is to be Historically accurate.

I will look into this some more.

Totus Tuus,
Andrew

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote name='Fiat_Voluntas_Tua' date='Nov 19 2004, 01:38 AM'] One thing we might want to tell her: (I would like it if someone backed me up, and make sure i am not wrong.)

The OT stories are not all Historically accuarate...and they weren't all written to be historically accurate. spending 3 days in a whale could mean Jonah was exiled for 3 days on a boat...

I am positive, but I am pretty sure that the stories are representations of ways God manifested Himself to them. It is the New Testament that is to be Historically accurate.

I will look into this some more.

Totus Tuus,
Andrew [/quote]
No, he was thrown off the boat and swallowed by the whale... that was the whole point: he was exiled from the boat, not from the people. He left the people by his own free will, as he was running from what God wanted him to do. In any event, the Old Testament is not a bunch of fables... the Old Testament is a literal rendering of what happened. Modern 'catholic' biblical 'scholarship' tries to disprove that, but to do so is heresy.

[Cure of Ars]

Sorry about the length of this post.

I have some ideas that might help in regards to the story.

Great stories sometimes do not make themselves totally clear on purpose so that the person needs to mull around the story in their mind. Jesus did this a lot with his parables. A lot of what he said is not clear on the surface but after thinking about what he is saying and meditating on it, the meaning becomes clear. It think this is one of the things that makes up a great story and makes it engaging.


Another point that I would like to make is that stories always are based on the context of the cultural point of view. There is a lot of givens that are not explicitly stated because it assumes the audience already knows the details.


All right why did a large fish swallow Jonah? I would argue that the relevancy is that it played a major role in Jonah being successful in his mission towards Nineveh. My understanding is that Nineveh had a fish god that they worshiped. When Jonah went to Nineveh it does not explicitly state this but I would argue that the fact that he was swallowed by a whale, died, but then came back to life to give a message to Nineveh would be interpreted as meaning that Jonah’s God was more powerful than their fish god by the people of Nineveh. And this played a major role in Nineveh repenting accepting the message and being saved. This shows that God is more powerful than evi and he can use evil for a greater good.


I would also go along with the typology that you suggested. I would argue that the fish can be understood to be a sea monster or sea serpent and that it points to Satan. Jesus like Jonah overcame the power of Satan and became the savior for the people from Satan.

I would also argue that Jonah did not live in the belly of the whale but died. In Jonah 2:7 Jonah says that he went to the nether world. Which is hell.

I would tell your friend that to say that the story is unrealistic or farfetched is to miss the point of the story. You will miss the point if you read the story from a skeptical modern point of view instead of having an open mind and reading it from the cultural point of view that it was written from. To say that there are sea monsters in the ocean to this day is not an unrealistic notion. And to say that they can eat people is not an unheard of phenomenon. And if she believes in a God I don’t know what is stopping this God from resurrecting someone who is dead. If God can create humans I don’t she why it is so far fetched for him to give life again. To me to view the really mysterious things in life and reduce them to categories of unrealistic and farfetched is no way to live. I think in this respect the people of 2000 years ago were more in touch with reality then a lot of people today who are not able to see mystery and be awed by it. The story and typology of Jonah should make us gawk in utter awe. We have an awesome God. I hope this helps.

Edited November 20, 2004 by Cure of Ars