The Catholic Church:The Church that Christ founded

[ICTHUS]

IheartjpII, I told you this on CGR, and I will tell you this here.

Your poll begs the question. There is no option on there that accurately reflects my beliefs. However, were to vote, I would say "The catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded, but it does not inhere within the institution of Roman Catholicism"

[Archangel]

I voted "Yes".

The Catholic Church can trace it origins to Jesus and the Apostles. None of the Protestant churches can make that claim.

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Nov 20 2004, 11:03 PM'] IheartjpII, I told you this on CGR, and I will tell you this here.

Your poll begs the question. There is no option on there that accurately reflects my beliefs. However, were to vote, I would say "The catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded, but it does not inhere within the institution of Roman Catholicism" [/quote]
Um, if you [i]did[/i] post something, I didn't read it yet, or if I did, I don't remember. Of course it begs the question. What I could have also asked is "Is the Catholic Church the Church the Christ Founded?" For some reason, this bothers you. Why must you go bonkers when I ask this question? Are you annoyed? Well, simple solution, don't go to a forum that I'm a member of. If you chose to do the opposite, you'll just have to deal with it. What does your last comment mean anyway?

[Guest Aluigi]

he doesn't want to abandon the name "catholic" or "universal" in some odd claim that classical reformed protestantism is the only universal church. excuse me while i laugh.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 18 2004, 10:44 PM'] protestants have done this in the past. Catholics have done this in the past.

the Catholic Church was always at the forefront of fair trials and constantly sought to end the superstitious hunting of witches. the inquisition wouldn't even hear outrageous fearful witch accusations. [/quote]
How's this for hypocrisy! The Roman Catholic Church puts someone on trial, condemns them for heresy, crossdressing, witchcraft, and blasphemy, burns them at the stake, buries them, digs them up again, acquits them, and then declares them a saint...

Sheesh...either the girl is in, or she's out! What'll it be, folks?

[ICTHUS]

I apologize to anyone who saw what I just wrote to IheartjpII

Edited November 22, 2004 by ICTHUS

[ICTHUS]

Mods, I'm requesting that an option for "He founded the catholic (that is, universal) church, not just Roman Catholicism." be added, as that is the only option that accurately reflects my beliefs, and no doubt, the beliefs of other historically informed Protestants on this site.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Nov 21 2004, 11:42 PM'] How's this for hypocrisy! The Roman Catholic Church puts someone on trial, condemns them for heresy, crossdressing, witchcraft, and blasphemy, burns them at the stake, buries them, digs them up again, acquits them, and then declares them a saint...

Sheesh...either the girl is in, or she's out! What'll it be, folks? [/quote]

[b][EDIT: I was out of line][/b]

The English used a "politically aligned" Bishop to condemn Joan of Arc, so the English would have more credit and reason to burn her. The burning was not because of heresy, but of politics.

That's a very short and general version, I'm tired.

Edited November 22, 2004 by Paladin D

[Balthazor]

Hey Paladin if you are willing to give me the long version some day I would be very interested in hearing it. PM me if you think about it
Thank you

[SirMyztiq]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 19 2004, 12:00 AM']
Not just condensed, but wrong. This has nothing to do with opinion, this has to do with fact...

The Catholic Church was before the bible... Why not study something before you try to tell the history....


The Catholic Church 33 AD.
The Bible... 400 AD, put together by Catholic Bishops


[url="http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9109700&query=roman%20catholicism&ct=eb"]http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId...tholicism&ct=eb[/url]

Roman Catholicism
Encyclopædia Britannica Article

Christian church characterized by its uniform, highly developed doctrinal and organizational structure that traces its history to the Apostles of Jesus Christ in the 1st century AD. Along with Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism, it is one of the three major branches of Christianity.

The claim of the Roman Catholic Church to be the one legitimate continuation of the community established by Jesus Christ is based on apostolic succession. This does not mean that there are apostles, nor does it mean that individual Apostles transmitted some or all of their commission to others. The officers of the church, the bishops, are a college (organized group or body) that continues the college of the Apostles, and the individual bishop is a successor of the Apostles only through his membership in the college.

The idea of apostolic succession appears in the writings of Irenaeus, a Church Father who died about 202. Against the Gnostics (dualistic sects that maintained that salvation is not from faith but from some esoteric knowledge) Irenaeus urged that the Catholic teaching was verified because a continuous succession of teachers, beginning with the Apostles, could be demonstrated. In the 3rd and 4th centuries problems of schism within churches were resolved by appealing to the power of orders (i.e., the powers a person has by reason of his ordination either as deacon, priest, or bishop) transmitted by the imposition of hands through a chain from the Apostles. Orders in turn empowered the subject to receive the power of jurisdiction (i.e., the powers an ordained person has by reason of his office). In disputes between Rome and the Eastern churches the idea of apostolic succession was centred in the Roman pontiff, the successor of Peter; it will be observed that this goes beyond the idea of collegial succession. Apostolic authority is defined as the power to teach, to administer the sacraments, and to rule the church. Apostolic succession in the Roman Catholic understanding is validated only by the recognition of the Roman pontiff; and the Roman Catholic Church understands the designation “apostolic” in the creed as referring to this threefold power under the primacy of the Roman pontiff.



God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
I suppose.

If you want to call the Jews that followed Jesus around "Christians/Catholics" then be my guest.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]I suppose.

If you want to call the Jews that followed Jesus around "Christians/Catholics" then be my guest.
[/quote]



Have you ever read the bible which you attack so much, those jews where called Christians by the [i][b]people at the time[/b][/i]

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 19 2004, 02:37 PM'] You are ignoring the different kinds of prayer.  When we pray we can either Praise, apologize (contrition), Thank (Thansgiving), or Ask (petition).  Generally speaking, when we pray to saints we are requesting something, much like you would request of a friend.  We are asking them to intercede with God, much like you would ask a friend who you want to intercede for you on a certain matter, or to pray for you.  Prayer is certainly a form of worship, but it is not always worship (strictly speaking).

We honor the saints in so far as God has honored them by numbering them among His elect. 



[/quote]
Upon re-reading this I have decided that it is insufficent (especially from the lack of demonstration of the necessary correlation between sacrifice and worship) and must be expounded. I'll work on it and post a better explanation at a later date.

Edited November 22, 2004 by popestpiusx

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
11/22 - St. Cecilia

[quote]Mods, I'm requesting that an option for "He founded the catholic (that is, universal) church, not just Roman Catholicism." be added, as that is the only option that accurately reflects my beliefs, and no doubt, the beliefs of other historically informed Protestants on this site. [/quote]

No.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Nov 22 2004, 12:11 AM'] Mods, I'm requesting that an option for "He founded the catholic (that is, universal) church, not just Roman Catholicism." be added, as that is the only option that accurately reflects my beliefs, and no doubt, the beliefs of other historically informed Protestants on this site. [/quote]
Start your own poll.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Nov 21 2004, 01:03 AM'] IheartjpII, I told you this on CGR, and I will tell you this here.

Your poll begs the question. There is no option on there that accurately reflects my beliefs. However, were to vote, I would say "The catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded, but it does not inhere within the institution of Roman Catholicism" [/quote]
Then it would not have been founded by Jesus Christ.

Do you really think God [ the perfect One]could found something defective? Then it wouldn't be God.