Will you be eternally saved?

[Paladin D]

[quote name='noncatholicname' date='Nov 17 2004, 05:44 PM'] First the leaders of your church tried forcing people to convert, now you try reason.  It's not working.  Either kill us or accept us, otherwise don't bother. [/quote]
I just got this gun, and do you know how much ammo cost for a standard Scout Blaster? They rip you off!

I would rather use up my ammo on a womp rat.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]First the leaders of your church tried forcing people to convert, now you try reason. It's not working. Either kill us or accept us, otherwise don't bother.[/quote]

From a critical-historical perspective, it seems to me that First Christ established a church. Then the apostles and bishops evangelized the nations, established successors, and defended the faith. That same evangelization and defense of orthodoxy was carried out by the Early Church Fathers through the collapse of the Roman Empire, the invasions of multiple armies from both East and West, and the rise of the Byzantine Empire. After the first millenium the shifted political power of Old Rome compared to New Rome (Constantinople) and the constant assertions of Byzantine Emperors that they held a form of priestly vocation as well as temporal power caused a large number of Eastern Bishops to split with the Apostolic See in Rome, the primacy of which had not, up until this point, been called into question. The faith, however, stood firm as it had during the first millenium despite this split, and Europe unto Britain was evangelized. The faith was defended, clarified, and spread by the numerous saints across the years, and new heresies were continually dealt with. The protestant reformation did not bring up anything new in terms of theology. Plenty of heretics had already taught against things like transubstantiation, [i]sola fide[/i], and even [i]sola scriptura[/i] was taught by Pelagius. The reason such heresy lasted this time around was not because it magically became "truth" but because it had political advantage on its side (ie it was politically and economically advantagious for European kings to declare their nations Protestant).

So the short response to your statement is no, the Church didnt "first try to force conversions, then try to reason them" such a statement illustrates a complete lack of understanding of the subject at hand, a disposition to grossly overgeneralize, and either an inability or an unwillingness to engage in intellectual and scholarly debate.

[phatcatholic]

noncatholicname............i made a considerable effort to explain to you what the FBC was really all about. it disheartens me that you still think ill of it........

[Balthazor]

[quote name='noncatholicname' date='Nov 17 2004, 04:44 PM']

I would say your first statement contradicts your first. And I only grow bitter when called a heretic and told that I would be killed by members on this forum if your Holy See decreed it so.

[/quote]
ummm....

maybe you don't realize this but there are quite a few websites that spread falsehoods about the Catholic CHurch and what Catholics believe.
For example I can not tell you how many Catholic bashing websites I come across that claim that Catholics Worship Mary...or they say that we ADORE Mary and worship her as God...
This is simply not true.... we have a right to defend our Church against people who bash it and spread false concepts about it.
If you don't beleive me on this point here is an example... [url="http://www.bible.ca/catholic-mariolatry.htm"]http://www.bible.ca/catholic-mariolatry.htm[/url]

This also goes on in forums I think we have a right to defend ourselves there too.
I am sure that if you came across a website that was spreading falshood about your Church you might want to reply.

The crusade here is not offensive, it is defensive. Also Christianity is a proselytic religion by nature deal with it.

Also who here called you a "heretic"?

[Balthazor]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Nov 17 2004, 06:55 PM'] As a former Protestant I am now considered a heretic (as far as Protestants go)


Dont bother me none. [/quote]
Just wanted to let you know...You Rock my dear!!!

[XIX]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Nov 18 2004, 12:50 AM'] Also who here called you a "heretic"? [/quote]
I think he is simply pointing out that that is the general perception that Orthodox Catholics seem to have of anybody who is not Orthodox.

[Balthazor]

sorry ....my feathers got ruffled. I didn't mean to fly off the handle like that....

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Nov 17 2004, 11:24 AM'] To approach a Catholic message board stating "Will you be eternally saved" as a Reformed Protestant, leaves me the impression this person isn't interested in learning about the Catholic faith and just wants to spread his own beliefs of such non-biblical concepts as "the sinners prayer" "alter-calls" and "accepting Jesus as your personal savior to be once and forever saved" [/quote]
Actually, Bro, from the looks of it this person doesn't really look Reformed. He believes in Eternal Security, yes, but it is illogical to believe in eternal security apart from the Reformed doctrines of grace. Also, the Reformed do not teach that perseverance is unnecessary. Let me quote the Westminster Confession at length.

Chapter XVII
[quote]Of the Perseverance of the Saints
I. They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.[1]

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;[2] upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ,[3] the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them,[4] and the nature of the covenant of grace:[5] from all which arises also the certainty and infallibility thereof.[6]

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;[7] and, for a time, continue therein:[8] whereby they incur God's displeasure,[9] and grieve His Holy Spirit,[10] come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,[11] have their hearts hardened,[12] and their consciences wounded;[13] hurt and scandalize others,[14] and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.[15][/quote]

Far from ignoring the necessity of perseverance, the Reformed affirm the need to 'make firm your calling and election'

[ICTHUS]

Who voted "No" to this poll, I'd love to know...

[Guest Aluigi]

perhaps someone despairing of God's mercy

perhaps someone answering on a purely intellectual level

[Balthazor]

I voted Maybe....

[popestpiusx]

I'm going to get saved again this Saturday afternoon at about 3:30 (or shortly thereafter, depending on how long the confession line is).

[burnsspivey]

I voted maybe, but not for the same reason as the rest of you, I'd bet. *L*

According to the Baptists I'm "saved". According to me it's a rather pointless question.

[cmotherofpirl]

How could a Baptist possibly think you are saved?

[burnsspivey]

Because I was saved...in the Baptist church...thus I am saved forever! Muahahaha!