Gal. 5:22,23 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Thank you all for your warm welcome. I continue to pray for my dad. My attempts to speak to him about our Lord are now met with hostility. So, I'm backing off for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncatholicname Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Nov 17 2004, 04:45 PM'] If you believe in free will, you have to believe it's possible to turn from Christ. Christ holds us in the palm of his hand and he won't drop us... there's nothing that says one can't freely jump out of it, though. [/quote] Why are you guys so adverse to the idea that God's will surpasses all other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 God will gave us free will, we are not robots. Yuo cannot have love without freedom to choose to love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 because God gave us free will and CHOOSES not to overstep it He wants us to love Him, He doesn't want to MAKE us love Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullnaChinaShop Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='noncatholicname' date='Nov 17 2004, 04:53 PM'] Why are you guys so adverse to the idea that God's will surpasses all other? [/quote] His will does surpass all others but that does not mean he imposes it on all others. He has given us the gift of free will and does not take it away once we profess Jesus as our Savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 17 2004, 05:49 PM'] But you can always choose to sin and walk away from him. [/quote] maybe, but it ain't happening. if it happens, He's call me back. i've heard many a testimony about christians wandering away from the faith after receiving Christ as a child....and i mean wandered faaaaaaaar away. but the Lord always call them back. prodigal son syle. as for myself, i don't plan on ever straying, Lord willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point5 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 there are also many stories of people who wandered away and died never coming back to their faith in Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 remember Peter insisting he would never betray the Lord? don't get arrogant. for every testimony of someone wandering away and coming back, there's an unpopular story of someone who wandered away and never came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightoftheImmaculate1 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I would say no to your vague poll. First, I would say no because the word "saved" would mean that my life has already ended and I am now with God in heaven. I wish this was true, but I am still here fighting the good fight as Paul wishes us to. Therefore I could say that if I am to continue on the path of receiving Christ's grace in His holy Sacraments, yes I will enventually enter into the beatific vision. But if I become prideful and say that I will be saved and must therefore do no more about it but sit back and watch then no, I will most likely not because I am a human being scarred with sin who relies on God's grace to preserve me not my own abilities. Do you call yourself a prophet since you know the salvific future of the countless souls who say they have recieved Jesus into their hearts but still serve two masters?? You cannot judge someone, as you are doing, until they have given their last fruits, therefore making it possible to see what has come of these fruits and to judge accordingly. You are not God and therefore cannot say who will or will not be saved, but you may say that someone is on the path to eternal salvation, struggling to become like Jesus Christ, in all their human weaknesses and thus is highly likely to share in the beatific vision. Are you saying that you yourself will never fall into sin, "Keep watch and pray that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." Matthew 26:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 17 2004, 06:01 PM'] remember Peter insisting he would never betray the Lord? don't get arrogant. for every testimony of someone wandering away and coming back, there's an unpopular story of someone who wandered away and never came back. [/quote] wow, how dare you? it's not arrogance. it's the promise of the Lord. He sealed me with His spirit. it's for His glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 by the way, we betray the Lord every day, with sin. thankfully, our salvation is not performance based, but Grace based, through our faith, producing good works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 how dare I warn you about the deadly sin of pride that anyone can easily fall into?? He never said you couldn't turn away, never promised you'd never fall away. He promised that if you persevere to the end, you will be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncatholicname Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 17 2004, 04:54 PM'] God will gave us free will, we are not robots. Yuo cannot have love without freedom to choose to love. [/quote] I get so sick and tired of this modernistic idea creeping in to the theology. Did it ever occur to anyone that your church fathers couldn't have looked at it as if we were "robots" because they simply didn't have that metaphor to use? The metaphor that God uses is Shepherds and sheep. Not robots. The opposite of Free will in God is not necessarily "no free will". Why is this so hard for people to understand? Does God keep us or not? Does a shepherd just let his sheep wander off? NO! Sorry for not buying into your notion of Free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 "modernist notion" ... yeah... I guess St. Thomas Aquinas is a modernist??? yes, I am a sheep. that's what Christians are called to be: sheep. obedience, humility, following the Lord. if we leave, He will chase us. but He will never force us. only nudge us. He never impedes on our free will and that is Christian Theology, nothing to do with modernism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 of course we know the ECFs (who you seem to think are all discredited because of a forgery well-known to be a forgery even by the 16th century while our sophisticated history hasn't figured the rest to be forgeries) wouldn't use the analogy of a robot. a sheep isn't a robot. you have to act like a sheep to remain a sheep, otherwise you become a wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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