Are You Saved?

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 18 2004, 09:55 PM'] GREEK!!! [/quote]
OMGOSH!!!!!!! I'm SOOOO sorry noncatholicname, I didn't see the r . I hope you could find it in your heart to forgive me. I guess I shouldn't be too quick to act . . . hey, a perfect example of concupiscience right here!

[iheartjp2]

Oh, by the way, moderator, could you ignore that report I made, please?

[Guest Aluigi]

i guess my PM warning was too late

lol... anyway, he was refering to Raph (i mentioned earlier he knows koine greek)

[noncatholicname]

[quote name='iheartjp2' date='Nov 18 2004, 09:58 PM'] OMGOSH!!!!!!! I'm SOOOO sorry noncatholicname, I didn't see the r . I hope you could find it in your heart to forgive me. I guess I shouldn't be too quick to act . . . hey, a perfect example of concupiscience right here! [/quote]
Oh my!

Your forgiven... That's actually funny. We all need a laugh right now.

I wonder if I can change my name to GEEKEXPERT?

[cmotherofpirl]

You act like Geek is a bad word

[noncatholicname]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 18 2004, 10:25 PM'] You act like Geek is a bad word [/quote]
Well, it's a FOUR letter word... G-E-E-K...

Actually, I've been called an old testiment geek by a few people. I wear that mantle proudly.

[cmotherofpirl]

OT is my favorite

[ironmonk]

[quote name='noncatholicname' date='Nov 17 2004, 12:23 AM'] And if "sacrad tradition" has been corrupted, as it was revealed in the 1500s?  Then what?

[/quote]
It can never be corrupted, Jesus promised that the One Faith would be guided in all truth, by the Holy Spirit...

[b]St. Matt 16:18[/b] "[color=red]And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it[/color]."


[b]John 14:16[/b]
[color=red]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate 8 to be with you always,[/color]
[b]17 [/b][color=red]the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. [/color]
[b]18 [/b][color=red]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.[/color]
....
[b]26 [/b][color=red]The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name--he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you. [/color]



[b]1 Tim 3:15[/b]
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.



All who leave the Church will be wrong to do so:

[b]Acts 20:29[/b]
I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
[b]30 [/b]And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.

[b]2 Peter 3:15 [/b]
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
[b]16 [/b]speaking of these things 12 as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
[b]17 [/b]Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.



The word has been passed onto trustworthy men:

[b]2 Timoty 3:14 [/b]
But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, [b]because you know from whom you learned it, [/b]


[b]2 Thess 2:15 [/b]
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours

[b]2 Tim 2:2 [/b]
And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.



"Many witnesses" this keeps it a pure faith... they are only men, and sometimes men fail, but the Church never will be overcome or wrong in faith and morals. If the Church lost it's way that would mean that there is no God. There is a God, and His Son is Jesus... the Church will never loose it's way.


[quote]You cannot prove that the writings of the early church fathers are what they are.  The early church didn't deem them worthy of being included in the bible canon.  Why?  Indeed, how do we know?[/quote]

Why not find an answer to your question instead of coming to a conclusion from your question without an answer.

There were over 200 books and letters considered for Canon of the New Testament. Only 27 were picked by the Bishops in Council that were guided by the Holy Spirit to determine which were inspired.

Just because the letters and books of the Early Church Fathers are not in the bible does not make them any less true.

See, these letters and books had multiple copies of them. The copies were sent to all the main churches. These churches were all over the known world. It wasn't just one man keeping the only copies of these letters... all the major churches received copies.

That is how we know. We know because we see others writing about the writings for the last 1500 to 1900 years. Everything matches up. We know because the majority of people have been passing on the history ever since. That is the only way we know anything that has happened in the past. If you don't believe that the ECF writings are what they are, then why do you believe anything? Are you sure George Washington was ever president of the USA? Why believe the bible, because it was the ECF that put it together... St. Augustine was one of the Bishops involved with the Canon of the NT.

Secular historians back up the claim that they were the first Christians.


[quote]My biggest objection to what you are going to say next;  "It was handed down from generation to generation" is the fact that it has been shown that a forgery was passed off as the real deal in the donation of constantine.  Every time I bring this up, I do so sincerely, but catholics essentially blow me off.   It calls into question more than just the uninspired texts, but also the inspired ones.[/quote]


That is because history does not back your statement. You have been told a lie.

There were dozens of copies of almost all the letters and books.

There is a lot of money to be made in anti-Catholicism... greed is a very powerful factor of some. A lot of the things said by anti-Catholics about Constantine are lies.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited November 19, 2004 by ironmonk

[noncatholicname]

So much for the laugh...

With all due respect, I HAVE NEVER LEFT YOUR CHURCH!

Edited to add*

And furthermore, it was the catholic website, www.newadvent.com, that has a rather extensive article concering the donation of constantine. I'm assuming that you are now calling them a liar as well?

Tell you what. Just forget it.

Edited November 19, 2004 by noncatholicname

[God Conquers]

The Donation of Constantine is not a part of sacred tradition....

It was shown to be a fake (this particular document at any rate) by a Catholic Monk, and accepted by the Catholic Church immediately thereafter.

How could this be a corruption of tradition?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='noncatholicname' date='Nov 18 2004, 09:20 PM'] Ask your greek expert what a forensic declaration is.  It is you who cannot see outside the box. [/quote]
Actually, in all honesty, I'd like to hear what it is from you.

I'm no Greek expert. I'm a Latin expert who knows a decent amount of the grammatical structure of Koine Greek.

[bookwyrm]

"semen illius ipsa" = the offspring of the woman herself

am I right?
Sorry if we're done with that, I just wanted to make sure everyone was crystal clear. It seemed kinda obvious to me.

BTW, we use Ecce Romani, also!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='bookwyrm' date='Nov 19 2004, 11:43 PM'] "semen illius ipsa" = the offspring of the woman herself

am I right?
Sorry if we're done with that, I just wanted to make sure everyone was crystal clear. It seemed kinda obvious to me.

BTW, we use Ecce Romani, also! [/quote]
Nope..."semen illius" ends one clause (literally translates "her seed") and "ispa" begins the next clause. That would be easier to see if Latin had punctuation...

[Guest]

God is our father
Would a father ever not claim his son ?
As long as the son had faith in his Father
His Father would have faith in his Son
Therefore, a place would always be saved for him.
God is Love, God is mercy
As long as you keep your faith In God (Jesus Christ) you will be saved
It says in Hebrews somewere I believe, that there is even a plan of salvation for the heathen. And there is even a plan of salvation for souls who dont belive in God.
God is the judge, not one of us can sit here and say who will go to Heaven and who will go to hell. Not one of us has the right to do that.
But back to the question
If we perserve in love and have faith In our Father
then there is no way that our Father would ever deny us.
The only way God would deny us is if we chose to live in sin and be unwilling to repent of it and walk in love
And even if this was the case, God still know's his childs heart, and still has the choice to give the greatest gift he has to give..................GRACE and MERCY

Edited November 20, 2004 by Guest

[popestpiusx]

I've been saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaved by the LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!