ironmonk Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Yesterday, five soldiers were killed by dead bodies packed with explosives.... Today... The communistic media is trying to rake a soldier over the coals for killing an insurgent. CBS had a crew with some marines checking out a building of insurgents that were just shooting at them. They yelled out if anyone was in there... They all appeared to be dead. One was faking being dead. The man had a chance to come out and surrender but was faking being dead... and the tactics that the insurgents use, the soldier had every right to shoot the man. If I was that soldier, I would have done the same thing... the insurgent could have had explosives on him, or firearms. That soldier could have saved everyone in that room. The only thing that the soldier is guilty of is being a hero for the Iraqi people and the men he fights side by side with. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 (edited) One more note... They all loved John Kerry... John Kerry claimed to do far worse than what this soldier did... Kerry was called a hero. Kerry claimed to have shot women and children. This soldier shot a terrorist. Yesterday, the soldier was shot in the face... but stayed. This soldier is a hero. God Bless, ironmonk Edited November 16, 2004 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 It was NBC, not CBS. The man was wounded, and the situation is being investigated as to whether there was a legitimate case of self-defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 The Media is looking for another prison scandle... I'm not sure if the whole situation has been stated yet, but from what I have seen or heard I find no fault in the soldiers actions. They are in war, people are doing anything and everything that they can to kill our soldiers. (Playing dead, faking surrender and then firing at our exposed troups, bombs in dead bodies, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Sojourner' date='Nov 16 2004, 06:18 PM'] It was NBC, not CBS. The man was wounded, and the situation is being investigated as to whether there was a legitimate case of self-defense. [/quote] It was legitimate. This is a war. This is not a time where one can apply just cause from civil law here. The man should have surrendered instead of playing dead. Soldiers do want to live, and when one is in a war, one is in fear of one's life, and the lives of your friends around you. To say that the soldier was wrong, is foolish and that person shouldn't even be talking about it because they know nothing when it comes to war. Some might ask what do I know about war? More than anyone who says that the soldier was wrong to shoot the enemy who was trying to kill him that same day... when the soldier was shot in the face the day before. The soldier is innocent of any wrong doing. That's all that can be said. God Bless, ironmonk Edited November 16, 2004 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 16 2004, 03:54 PM'] Yesterday, five soldiers were killed by dead bodies packed with explosives.... Today... The communistic media is trying to rake a soldier over the coals for killing an insurgent. CBS had a crew with some marines checking out a building of insurgents that were just shooting at them. They yelled out if anyone was in there... They all appeared to be dead. One was faking being dead. The man had a chance to come out and surrender but was faking being dead... and the tactics that the insurgents use, the soldier had every right to shoot the man. If I was that soldier, I would have done the same thing... the insurgent could have had explosives on him, or firearms. That soldier could have saved everyone in that room. The only thing that the soldier is guilty of is being a hero for the Iraqi people and the men he fights side by side with. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] You make me sick, Max, I have to say that. Yes, American soldiers die, prephas uneededly, and yes we shoudl pray for them. But those, like that Marine, that commited murder and his action is going to lead to MORE, not less, attacks on American troops should be prayed for too, but not for the same reason. We should pray for Mercy for him. He shoot and killed an clearly unarmed Iraqi who was deeply injured and seemed dead. The Marine said "He's f****** faking he's dead. He faking he's f****** dead." Last I checked, being injured wasn't grounds for being killed. Also if the Iraqi was thought to be armed why didn't he say "He is armed!" and not "He is faking he's F****** dead?" The Marine commited murder... in a Mosque, way to go Uncle Sam. Think about it this way, war breaks out in the US and a Muslim kills an unarmed American in a Catholic Church, what would the Catholics say? And Max, if he should of jumped up and screamed I surrender, let see if it is possible, go shoot someone with a high speed .223 round from an M-4 and gravly injure them, than have them jump up and scream. Fat chance they can. Being on the ground bleeding, in US secured area, probly means you are unarmed and surrender. Rember, this was the SECOND unit to go over that area, a Marine unit cleared the area, and the Mousque, just minutes before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Marines are trained, and trained well to assess the situations they found them in. I believe that this Marine was able to tell the difference between resignation to being captured and faking death. Most of the fighters that are in Fallujah are commited to fighting until the death. Those who were not commited to fighting until death were able to escape and flee. They have been fighting fiercely, and they will not fight fair. They will take american lives in anyway that they can. Should the soldier just assume that this man is an exception to the tactics that we have experienced with this war? The city is not secure. No cities in Iraq are. From what I have seen I find no fault in his actions. Let the investigation conclude itself and all evidence be brought to light before accusing him of murder. Attacks are going to come on U.S. soldiers regardless, lets not give these young men and women one more thing to worry about. They do not need to be second guessing themselves in a hostile environment that could very easily take their lives. In war, hesitation equals death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk']This is a war. This is not a time where one can apply just cause from civil law here. The man should have surrendered instead of playing dead.[/quote] First of all, you're wrong about the situation. The people inside the building were wounded, suspected insurgents, who had been taken prisoner. According to every report I've seen, the man was wounded and shot at point blank range. You can't stand up, come out and surrender if you can't stand up. You need to look at the teachings of your own Church. It's not okay to kill unarmed people at point blank range. Your evaluation that he did nothing wrong is extremely flawed because you have no idea what was in his mind and you don't know the true situation -- you're not in Iraq, you're sitting here watching the news like the rest of us and drawing your own conclusions. I'm reserving judgment on whether or not he did anything wrong and trusting that the Department of Defense will figure it out; if they court martial him and dishonorably discharge him, then I'll know that they have evidence that he shot the man at point blank range because he hated him and wanted to kill him, which is very possible in a war setting. If they don't court martial him and don't discharge him, then I'll conclude that he thought his safety and the safety of those around him was endangered. The conclusion you've drawn is ultranationalistic with just a pinch of ignoring your faith. It's not okay to murder unarmed people according to Catholic teaching. And it doesn't become okay when an American soldier does it. You should reserve your judgment, as should everyone else, until the Department of Defense investigation is complete. But it's silly to assume that he did nothing wrong just because he's an American soldier -- they're just as capable of doing something wrong as any other nation's soldiers. After all, America is far from perfect and far from respectful of the dignity of human life, just look at the forty-five million babies murdered in our country since 1973. The Culture of Death has bled into our military just as it had bled into all other parts of our culture, and it would not surprise me at all if some American soldiers believed Iraqis are subhuman and that it doesn't matter if they kill them in any circumstance. We have no respect for human life in this country, and it's silly to think that our disrespect for life wouldn't touch our military. So I'm reserving judgment on this until the Pentagon tells me what the conclusion of their investigation is. I'd recommend that everyone else do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 The man was wounded, he was unarmed and the " combatant" had been removed from him, the marine murdered him in cold blood, I firmly believe he should be taken out and Publicly executed this act, which was not only a violation of Gods law but of Natural Law and even Mans laws of War, being a Soldier is an Office, one with great Power( the poer to kill) that Power comes with responsability, if he would shoot a wounded man in Iraq then he would shoot on here to, he is a murderer, but more than that he is a Murderer who murdered while in the act of fulfilling his office, so he should be punished swiftly and without prefrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 (edited) I saw the video. The man was given ample chance to surrender. The man was faking dead. He was a terrorist. Terrorist see nothing wrong with blowing themselves up to kill innocents around them - for all the soldier knew he could have been loaded with explosives. The day before the marine was shot in the face. The day before five marines were killed from bodies packed with explosives. The marine was in fear for his life. Might have the soldier been a little trigger happy... more than likely, but that happens in war. The soldier was not wrong for what he did. He wasn't necessarily right, but it was justified and understandable. It's sad that some can't understand what war means, and have no inking of what these guys are going through. Edited November 17, 2004 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 17 2004, 07:24 AM'] I saw the video. The man was given ample chance to surrender. The man was faking dead. He was a terrorist. Terrorist see nothing wrong with blowing themselves up to kill innocents around them - for all the soldier knew he could have been loaded with explosives. The day before the marine was shot in the face. The day before five marines were killed from bodies packed with explosives. The marine was in fear for his life. Might have the soldier been a little trigger happy... more than likely, but that happens in war. The soldier was not wrong for what he did. He wasn't necessarily right, but it was justified and understandable. It's sad that some can't understand what war means, and have no inking of what these guys are going through. [/quote] I haven't seen the video. I have read multiple descriptions of it. The man was seriously wounded and on the verge of death, lying on the floor, when he was shot. The man was an enemy combatant, with whom we are engaged in a war action. In war, there are rules of engagement, conventions that we agree to abide by during conflict. Everyone in a war is in fear for his life (including the "communist media" who go along with the troops), but despite that fear he fights for something he believes is right. I have two brothers in the service, one in the U.S. Air Force and one in the U.S. Marine Corps. You're right, I have no inkling what it's like to be on the battlefield, afraid for my life. You don't either. But I do know that, if the tables were turned, if one of my brothers was lying wounded on the floor, I'd want the Iraqis to abide by the rules we've all agreed to. Sure, people break the rules all the time, but that doesn't justify throwing the rules away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Nov 17 2004, 11:06 AM'] I haven't seen the video. I have read multiple descriptions of it. The man was seriously wounded and on the verge of death, lying on the floor, when he was shot. The man was an enemy combatant, with whom we are engaged in a war action. In war, there are rules of engagement, conventions that we agree to abide by during conflict. Everyone in a war is in fear for his life (including the "communist media" who go along with the troops), but despite that fear he fights for something he believes is right. I have two brothers in the service, one in the U.S. Air Force and one in the U.S. Marine Corps. You're right, I have no inkling what it's like to be on the battlefield, afraid for my life. You don't either. But I do know that, if the tables were turned, if one of my brothers was lying wounded on the floor, I'd want the Iraqis to abide by the rules we've all agreed to. Sure, people break the rules all the time, but that doesn't justify throwing the rules away. [/quote] I do have an inkling... I know many people who were in and are in the service. I've listened to them, I've seen the results of the training and the effects of what killing hundreds of the enemy does to a man. He was not just a combatant. He was a terrorist. He was of the same group that has been beheading innocent lives. He was of a group that has no problem blowing themselves up to kill other innocents. There was no way of knowing if he wasn't packed with explosives... therefore the soldier reacted to the situation in an understandable way, and should not be charged with murder. End of Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 17 2004, 09:16 AM'] I do have an inkling... I know many people who were in and are in the service. I've listened to them, I've seen the results of the training and the effects of what killing hundreds of the enemy does to a man. He was not just a combatant. He was a terrorist. He was of the same group that has been beheading innocent lives. He was of a group that has no problem blowing themselves up to kill other innocents. There was no way of knowing if he wasn't packed with explosives... therefore the soldier reacted to the situation in an understandable way, and should not be charged with murder. End of Story. [/quote] When did "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" become "Do unto others as they do to you?" This man was not, in this particular instance, a terrorist, which is defined by Encarta as "somebody using violence for political purposes: somebody who uses violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate, often for political purposes." The Iraqi was engaging in combat warfare in Fallujah. I suppose if I go by your definition of having an inkling, then yeah, I have an inkling of what it's like to be in combat. I've watched movies and documentaries, I've talked to numerous veterans of several different wars, and I've read lots of books about war. I'm not saying this was an easy decision for this Marine to face, and I'm not saying the circumstances in which he found himself, both physically and emotionally, were easy. But I am saying that we have rules for combat, and he didn't follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 He did not break the rules. He had reasonable reason to believe his life was in danger... THEREFORE HE DID NOT BREAK THE RULES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamweaver Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Pray for peace in Iraq and the Middle East. God bless our troops, may they return safetly to family and friends in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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