popestpiusx Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 (edited) Adam, I am not going to respond to that right now because you just pissed me off and I might post something that I should not. We'll chat later. By the way, ..............never mind. I'll just say this, your post demonstrate a certain amount of ignorance on a number of issues. In your case I think the ignorance is excusable (I mean that sincerely and not as a criticism). It is for this reason that I should not post until I can do so reasonably. Edited November 17, 2004 by popestpiusx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 16 2004, 01:17 PM'] Folks, you are missing something key here. You are accusing people of things without proper evidence and without properly defining your term. For instance, accusing people of being schismatic evidently without knowing what that even means. Also, there is a key distinction to be made between what is legally orthodox and what is ontologically orthodox. They are quite different. What is legally orthodox is not necessarily true. What is ontologically orthodox (as the name indicates) is always true. It seems to me that many of the things you claiming are heresy are in fact legally orthodox (theological opinions tolerated by Rome). Let me give an unrelated example. Prior to the solemn defining of the Immaculate Conception it was legally orthodox to hold the opposite opinion, though ontologically it was unorthodox. This is especially notable considering that the Church celebrated the Feast of the Immaculate Conception for centuries before the declaration. There have always been theological opinions that contradict what the Church teaches as a matter of the ordinary magisterium, that are nonetheless tolerated. It is well known that I disagree with CC on the issue of baptism of desire (and the baggage that goes with it). It is, in my humble opinion, a theological error. However, to accuse CC of being a heretic or schismatic, especially based soley upon what he posts on one website, is not merely absurd, but downright unjust and uncharitable. No Bro. Adam, we are not entitled to our opinions when those opinions are baseless and defamatory. And yes, Dave, the truth does hurt sometimes. But neither you, nor anyone else on this website, has established that your accusation is true. [/quote] Thank you. God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Nov 16 2004, 05:55 PM'] Perhaps it is that you don't live in America, so I don't want to call anyone an idiot without first identifying the basic tenants of our constitution. The first admendment in our country allows us to speak our opinions freely. There is a certian limitation to that freedom, which I have by no means crossed, and therefore I will indeed continue to hold to my right as an American to share opinions, as unpopular as they may be. If you live in a country where free speech is not granted, I would die fighting with you to try to gain that freedom. [/quote] I'd suggest you read what Popes prior to Vatican II said about "free speach"... I wonder how many people on this website who are "so orthodox" have even read an entire letter, encyclical, bull, Apostolic Constitution, Session of a Council, or anything from prior to 1962... yet the Church had been around for 1930 years before Vatican II... seems completely backwards to me. You don't read the rest of the history of the Church in light of Vatican II but the exact opposite: you read/understand Vatican II in light of the Church teaching throughout the Ages. You should start with the beginning and work forward, not start with ambiguous and wordy (not to mention fallible) documents written in the last 40 or so years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Yep, read all the documents from all 21 councils. And yet, I'm still an Orthodox Catholic. Remember, it is "Ultra-Traditionalism" which is the tolerated opinion, not the Catholic who trusts in the leadership of the Church. PiusX - Yes, I've even read the writings of PiusX, and it's good to be pissed off. I can take, I'm a big boy. You have no idea how pissed off I became with some of the Catholics on this board when I was a Baptist, but in the end, I ended up humiliated, and I ended up lead to truth. I'm sure someone as yourself though would prefer that I was a baptist than an orthodox Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Moderator - this thread, unfortunately, probably belongs in the debate table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I had a thought, let's open up a new topic, actually I will, in the debate table for us to have a discussion, and hopefully start over again. While its okay to get mad, perhaps it will do us all good to at least start over again not mad and try to have a charitable discussion. In the thread you can share why you think the current leadership and teachings of VII are deadly wrong, I'll read everything you want me to, link me or copy and paste, and we'll talk about it. I'll admit I haven't read everything there is to read by any means. Perhaps this can lead to some good after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=24016"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=24016[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 In the thread you can share why you think the current leadership and teachings of VII are deadly wrong, I'll read everything you want me to, link me or copy and paste, and we'll talk about it. I'll admit I haven't read everything there is to read by any means Nope. You know that is not a subject we debate on Phatmass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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