Free Government Healthcare for Everyone

[ironmonk]

Yeah... that sounds good until one actually thinks what that will mean....


Think of when you lived (or living at home) and your dad says "You're going to do what I tell you to do as long as you are living under my roof".

When someone pays for your healthcare, they have power over you. Anytime you get a handout, those who are giving the handout have power over you.

The way the people are here in America, if we get government healthcare this is what is going to happen....
We will loose many freedoms...

- Smoking will be outlawed. Cancer will cost the system to much and since many people get cancer from smoking, then it's going to get outlawed. Most say "that's a good thing"... but it's not good at all... because it won't stop there.

- What, you want to have a little alcohol now, sorry can't do that, it costs the government to much money... alcohol is now illegal.

- HIV would cost the system to much along with all the sexually transmitted diseases so now it will be illegal to have sex without a condom (as if that protects people, but that's another topic)

- So many Americans are having heart problems because of their diet, foods with too much fat will be made illegal.

- Oh, you skydive, drive a motorcycle, SCUBA dive, ride a bicycle without a helmet, oh no no no... that's all illegal now because the government pays your medical bill and you have to do what the government says.


Think about it... Critically think about it. Government healthcare is facade to control you.



God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited November 14, 2004 by ironmonk

[God Conquers]

I live in a country with Public Health and this is not the case.

Smoking IS bad, and people should and will be discouraged from it, but can't be PREVENTED.

Biking without a helmet is idiotic, although studies showe that if you die on a bike it's likely you died whether or not you wore a helmet. People shouldn't be forced to wear helmets, they should wear them anyways, but laws can encourage them.

You can't outlaw foods with too much fat, it's impracticle.

Alcohol will never be outlawed, it generates way more revenue for governmen than treatment of the results of its ill use.

Public Health just means you pay earlier and over an extended period of time for your care, you retain control on how you live your life.

The major worry: evil committed on the public (your) dime.

Abortion, Euthanasia, Stem Cell Research, IVF

[Brother Adam]

I also disagree with the extreme you take it too, but agree with your "Brave New World" mentality. Canada has a public health care system and such things are not outlawed by any means. However, there is an increase of control in the health care system.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Government paid healthcare also often sets a standard price for medicines, a price cap so that the government won't have to pay too much. What happens with any price cap, and why conservative economics generally work against them (although, to be fair, the government under the Reagan administration did put a cap on beef prices which terribly crippled the agriculture industry in the south), is that people aren't allowed to make the money they seek and they lose drive in their production, often slowing down the system. In America, this would impact the development of new medicines the most, and we can't afford that...America is leading the way in medicinal development and we are on track to finding many new treatments, but if we slow that down, we're in trouble. Furthermore, fewer students would want to be doctors and the medical system would lose out.

Also, when the government pays for everything, people often forget that that means they are paying for it. People take advantage of the government too much, not realizing that it will just make their taxes go up, and what happens is that the poor, middle-class, and the wealthy all have to pay higher and higher taxes, even if they are not taking anything out of the system. The wealthy, who could afford to pay for it themselves, don't do so and the poor end up helping to pay for their medical expenses. Furthermore, more people take advantage, even for little things that they don't need medical attention to treat, and doctors are overscheduled, causing long waiting periods, short-supply of medicines, etc.

[ironmonk]

Gov healthcare will not work well here.

Have you forgotten the mentality of the american people?
Sue. Sue. Sue.

Yes, it will go to those extremes.

Quality of healthcare will decline.

Gov pricecaps without regard to how much something costs to make will hurt quality of product. Companies will simply stop making the product if it is not profitable. This is what would happen to us if we had Gov healthcare.

Healthcare should be provided for the poor who can't afford it, but not for everyone. Healthcare for everyone is foolish.


God Bless.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 14 2004, 06:18 PM'] - Smoking will be outlawed. Cancer will cost the system to much and since many people get cancer from smoking, then it's going to get outlawed. Most say "that's a good thing"... but it's not good at all... because it won't stop there.[/quote]

Smoking will not be outlawed as long as the governments get taxes from it. Bear in mind, tobacco taxes (generally) get more money in tax revenue than it costs to treat it.

[quote]- What, you want to have a little alcohol now, sorry can't do that, it costs the government to much money... alcohol is now illegal.[/quote]

Untrue for the same reasons above. Also a note: westrn countries with socialized medicine have more liberal alcohol laws than the U.S.

And another point on banning smoking and drinking: I don't think the U.S. federal government wants to go to the massive expense of banning it then trying to arrest all the illegal organized crime associated with illegal liquor. One word: Prohibition.

[quote]- HIV would cost the system to much along with all the sexually transmitted diseases so now it will be illegal to have sex without a condom (as if that protects people, but that's another topic)[/quote]

Ok, now you are just being silly. Governments pay people to have kids...

[quote]- So many Americans are having heart problems because of their diet, foods with too much fat will be made illegal.[/quote]

O.k, this one may have weight considering the US is the fattest nation on earth, but it's a brave government that bans food..

[quote]- Oh, you skydive, drive a motorcycle, SCUBA dive, ride a bicycle without a helmet, oh no no no... that's all illegal now because the government pays your medical bill and you have to do what the government says.[/quote]

If anything, people do more dangerous things when they don't have to worry about health insurance...

Edited November 15, 2004 by RandomProddy

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Nov 14 2004, 07:44 PM'] Smoking will not be outlawed as long as the governments get taxes from it. [/quote]
Touché

[ironmonk]

As the government machine grows with government healthcare for all, tabacco will be outlawed... we all will have to pick up the slack.

I'm totally aware of how much the government makes off tabacco now. Currently we don't have gov healthcare. Once we do, everything will change. The government providing unending handout is a way people in government gain power over the people, instead of the people having the power over the government.


The cons outweigh the pros for socialized healthcare... here is an interesting site with links to other sides that documents numerous issues.

[url="http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html"]http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issue...socialized.html[/url]

Please be sure to read much of the section: Worldwide Experiments in Socialism.


There is no logical reason to want government healthcare for all. There is reason to provide it for the poor. Anyone who says that everyone should be provided healthcare by the government, then I say that they do not know what they're talking about or have a inability to think critically on the matter.



God Bless,
ironmonk

[cmotherofpirl]

I don't want government health care.
I simply want the same plan the US Senate and House of Representatives get.

[Quietfire]

When Clinton was running for his second term, I got into a heated debate with someone about Government Healthcare.

He claimed withing 2 years after Clinton's re-election we would have an established Gov. Healthcare and all our problems would be solved, so to speak.

I argued that it would never happen because it took TOO much control away from the people and the people would not allow that. (in a nutshell-it was more complex than that but my arguement was fantastic...trust me)

So he bet me.
I'm still waiting to collect...he skipped town.




Pax.

[crusader1234]

I live in Canada and I think healthcare is good, although some of it should be privatized but blah anywyas

I think smoking should be made illegal in public places to protect everyone from second hand smoke. I think cigarettes should be taxed at a high enough rate so that anybody that smokes would have put enough money into the system to pay for all of the medical help they will need. Cigarettes shouldn't neccesarily be banned, for the same reason I don't think marijuana shouldn't - as long as the people are made to deal with the consequences of their actions.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 14 2004, 09:37 PM'] I don't want government health care.
I simply want the same plan the US Senate and House of Representatives get. [/quote]
Gotta love self-serving servants...

[Good Friday]

[quote name='ironmonk']Healthcare should be provided for the poor who can't afford it, but not for everyone. Healthcare for everyone is foolish.[/quote]
Again, I don't agree with government-controlled healthcare. At the same time, it's not just the poor who can't afford healthcare anymore -- it's almost everybody. Paying for even the most conservative healthcare benefits costs an arm and a leg, and it's not just the poor but also the middle class who can't afford healthcare. And healthcare costs have become increasingly difficult for small businesses.

If Bush's plan, which is primarily to enact tort reform, fails . . . what's the solution? If it doesn't bring the cost of healthcare down enough, what are we going to do for middle class people -- and especially women, children and the elderly -- who can't afford healthcare? What happens when a middle-aged woman discovers she has breast cancer but doesn't have health insurance? What happens when a five-year-old without healthcare becomes a paraplegic? What happens when an elderly person has to decide from month to month between food and medicine that's needed to keep them alive? I know these are circumstances that are hard for people to believe, but they exist -- and we're not just dealing in theories, we're dealing in people's lives. It's all well and good to say what we can't do, but we need to say what we can do to improve the lives of Americans when it comes to healthcare.

I agree with Cheryl -- not Big Government healthcare, but why can't we at least have the healthcare that our Senators and Congressmen have? Or, maybe more to the point, why can't they have to deal with the same healthcare problems that we do? Maybe they'd do something substantial to fix the problem if they had ever faced it themselves.

[cmotherofpirl]

Social Security pays arounf $700 a month. Try renting an apartment, paying utilities, buying food, clothing and medicine on that.
Something to look forward to, right?