The Democratic Party is Evil.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 15 2004, 02:00 AM'] I've tried. And that is what I get from it. It's not ignorance it's observation.

And I could care less about letters from the Pope or what some partisan Catholic research says.

Embryonic Stem Cell Research is not 'ESSENTIAL' but it's a way to find cures to diseases that we couldn't possibly find without proper testing. ESCR might not cure but it will revolutionaze the way we treat the diseases and how we go about fighting them. It will not take a day or a week for results. This is an on going scientific process to which we must be patient with.

And I know that I'm not being "told" what to think. Kind of ironic coming from you.

And the ugly;

I've heard plenty of BS from people like you that want to draw a parallel with two totally unrelated things. SCR is nothing like what the Nazis did. The killed grown humans and if they thought it was for progress then they really didn't know what they were talking about.

There is a right and proper scientific way to do it. And then theres an extreme, unethical way to do it.

SCR is actually making progress. And it will actually help. And we are not killing captured people and selling their bones. These are embryos...mostly frozen. Not crying women and children.

The extreme to which some people like to take things are really scary. [/quote]
Ok guy... whatever LOL Ironic coming from me... kid, you've got no idea who you're talking to. I have a science background and once was pre-med. I'm sorry if the logic posted was above your head. I've listened to all sides of the arguement... and your side fails. If you ever want to hope "winning" a debate, you better learn what and why your enemy (us) believes. Only a fool would ignore it.

If you want to go on being ignorant and lazy, that's your God given right. But you know that you speak from ignorance because you are unstudied.

It's not observation unless you've listened to the other side. Open your eyes and ears man if you wish to be intelligent.

Only a fool argues a point without listening to all sides of the arguement. You haven't listened or learned our side or you wouldn't make some of the statements you made. You will only understand what I meant by this if you read the pages to the links that I provided.

I'm not going to waste my time or anyone elses time by replying anymore unless you educate yourself and come up with some logic from studying both sides.

If we were wrong, you could easily find holes in the links I provided... maybe your scared of the truth... only you and God know.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Nov 15 2004, 07:19 AM'] JMJ
11/15 - St. Albertus Magnus

I've seen something applied to another situation, but I think it will work here.

A Democrat is evil, mathematically...

Everyone knows, Democrats cost time and money.

Democrats = Time x Money

But Time is money.

Democrats = Money x Money

But, according to Paul, money is the root of all evil.

Money = root(Evil).

So,

Democrats = root(Evil)

Therefore,

Democrat = Evil

(equally applicable to Republicans ) [/quote]
No one here said democrat = evil.


Please reread post one.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

It is downright disgusting that much of the Democratic agenda that ironmonk mentioned above is considered 'progressive.' How can anyone consider any of that progress?

As for welfare, I don't consider it a very Christian program. Why? The money has no spiritual value attached to it. Our money and resources can only do the will of God when it is given for God. Taxes belong to the government and therefore, while they're materially good, they lack the power to help in a spiritual way. It's a fact that religious people (at least down South, you might need the taxes up North) typically give a lot more money to charities and their churches. Religious charities get so much done with how little money they get. If the money put into government welfare were instead put into religious charities, life for the poor would be much less severe.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Nov 15 2004, 12:39 PM'] It is downright disgusting that much of the Democratic agenda that ironmonk mentioned above is considered 'progressive.' How can anyone consider any of that progress?

As for welfare, I don't consider it a very Christian program. Why? The money has no spiritual value attached to it. Our money and resources can only do the will of God when it is given for God. Taxes belong to the government and therefore, while they're materially good, they lack the power to help in a spiritual way. It's a fact that religious people (at least down South, you might need the taxes up North) typically give a lot more money to charities and their churches. Religious charities get so much done with how little money they get. If the money put into government welfare were instead put into religious charities, life for the poor would be much less severe. [/quote]
On a side note...

There are a lot of non-denom churches around here (Florida) that don't put the money they get into charities but keep their pastors with fat paychecks and buy overpriced equipment or advertising.

One "church" here is so fake it's pathetic.... "Church of the Cross" Bradenton FL... they have all these ads running that cost thousands of dollars to pull people in. It was interesting listening to what some of the people that use to work there say about it.

I've got a buddy that use to work at Sam Ash here and he told me that all of these non-denom churches would come in and drop $30,000 on a sound system and buy $5,000 guitars, etc...



I think the Charity work is getting done by the Catholic Church, various real Baptist churches, Lutherean, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches are doing it all. Not too many of the non-denoms, there are dozens in my little town alone... non-Catholicism is big business.


but the main topic...

It is progressive if you want to progress to anarchy, loss of freedoms, rights, and stay ignorant.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[CatholicCrusader]

The republican party is evil because of the national agenda it has.

They aggressivly push:[list]
[*]Feminism
[*]The use of contraception
[*]Secularism (at the very best a secular State)
[*]Various other "pernicious errors" -Popes against Modernism/Americanism
[/list]

[ironmonk]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 15 2004, 02:47 PM'] The republican party is evil because of the national agenda it has.

They aggressivly push:[list]
[*]Feminism
[*]The use of contraception
[*]Secularism (at the very best a secular State)
[*]Various other "pernicious errors" -Popes against Modernism/Americanism
[/list] [/quote]
Looks like we have another winner for not catching the gist of the main post.


BTW... what you say is untrue in regard to feminism, use of contraception, and secularism. This shows that you are unaware of the national agenda.



Please go back and read post one again for the point of this post.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Azriel]

Dude, even I get it.

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 15 2004, 02:13 PM'] Looks like we have another winner for not catching the gist of the main post.


BTW... what you say is untrue in regard to feminism, use of contraception, and secularism. This shows that you are unaware of the national agenda.



Please go back and read post one again for the point of this post.

God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
I understand quite well... I am not a Democrat (nor a Republican)--I am a conservative. The point is the same as you made: if it doesn't include you, then don't throw a temper tantrum... but you should know that Americanism is a heresy condemned by the Church.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot immodesty in the list... I suppose that falls under feminism--Fox and others are just as bad if not worse than the democrats about those kinds of things. It is their "right" they say to look at pin-up calendars and the like. In any event--no, I am right about the Republican party and anyone who believes in the American system. The Reps are for feminism (women voting, holding office, working in the workplace instead of at home, etc., as you can see the "W is for Women" and the like signs/stickers). They are for contraception, too. Most Reps are WASP: White Anglo Saxon protestant. That means: nothing wrong with contraception. Just because they "teach" abstinence doesn't mean they are against contraception. 92% of Americans are for teaching contraception to high schoolers in their "sex ed" progs. That means at BEST (even if not one dem is against contracption), 8% of Reps out of about 50% are against contraception. As far as secularism, yes, it is true: no one (or almost no one) in the Rep party is for amending the Constitution to recognize any religion whatsoever, especially Catholicism. That means: if they are against a State that has a religion, they are SECULARISTS (or as I said, at least for a secular State, which is a heresy).

Edited November 15, 2004 by CatholicCrusader

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Nov 15 2004, 06:19 AM'] JMJ
11/15 - St. Albertus Magnus

I've seen something applied to another situation, but I think it will work here.

A Democrat is evil, mathematically...

Everyone knows, Democrats cost time and money.

Democrats = Time x Money

But Time is money.

Democrats = Money x Money

But, according to Paul, money is the root of all evil.

Money = root(Evil).

So,

Democrats = root(Evil)

Therefore,

Democrat = Evil

(equally applicable to Republicans ) [/quote]
with all due respect, that formula is reserved for women.
Oh, and when can we expect some respect for our beliefs here? How un-PC to attack Catholicism to Catholics. It's like telling a Jew they killed Jesus isn't it? kind of wrong eh? apparently not. double standard. so much for equality. If I can't make fun of pagans then I sure don't want some jerk blasting my religion.

Edited November 15, 2004 by toledo_jesus

[ironmonk]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 15 2004, 08:03 PM'] I understand quite well... I am not a Democrat (nor a Republican)--I am a conservative. The point is the same as you made: if it doesn't include you, then don't throw a temper tantrum... but you should know that Americanism is a heresy condemned by the Church.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot immodesty in the list... I suppose that falls under feminism--Fox and others are just as bad if not worse than the democrats about those kinds of things. It is their "right" they say to look at pin-up calendars and the like. In any event--no, I am right about the Republican party and anyone who believes in the American system. The Reps are for feminism (women voting, holding office, working in the workplace instead of at home, etc., as you can see the "W is for Women" and the like signs/stickers). They are for contraception, too. Most Reps are WASP: White Anglo Saxon protestant. That means: nothing wrong with contraception. Just because they "teach" abstinence doesn't mean they are against contraception. 92% of Americans are for teaching contraception to high schoolers in their "sex ed" progs. That means at BEST (even if not one dem is against contracption), 8% of Reps out of about 50% are against contraception. As far as secularism, yes, it is true: no one (or almost no one) in the Rep party is for amending the Constitution to recognize any religion whatsoever, especially Catholicism. That means: if they are against a State that has a religion, they are SECULARISTS (or as I said, at least for a secular State, which is a heresy). [/quote]
We're talking about political agendas... not their moral issues in their churches...

Those things you listed are not on the rep. agenda nationwide. The reps are not fighting for them, if anything it's against them.

The old type of feminism (1900's) is good... the new type of femi-nazi's is not and is not a republican agenda.

"W" for Women... is a play on words... it's not feminist.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[SirMyztiq]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 15 2004, 08:20 AM'] Ok guy... whatever LOL Ironic coming from me... kid, you've got no idea who you're talking to. I have a science background and once was pre-med. I'm sorry if the logic posted was above your head. I've listened to all sides of the arguement... and your side fails. If you ever want to hope "winning" a debate, you better learn what and why your enemy (us) believes. Only a fool would ignore it.

If you want to go on being ignorant and lazy, that's your God given right. But you know that you speak from ignorance because you are unstudied.

It's not observation unless you've listened to the other side. Open your eyes and ears man if you wish to be intelligent.

Only a fool argues a point without listening to all sides of the arguement. You haven't listened or learned our side or you wouldn't make some of the statements you made. You will only understand what I meant by this if you read the pages to the links that I provided.

I'm not going to waste my time or anyone elses time by replying anymore unless you educate yourself and come up with some logic from studying both sides.

If we were wrong, you could easily find holes in the links I provided... maybe your scared of the truth... only you and God know.


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
Irony:
A Catholic telling me that I'm being told what to think.


Iron:

Do you think I honestly care? You can throw as many titles as me as you possible can but the truth is that you are partisan when it comes to your opinion and that even if you do have a "higher" education you're believes only make you shape and morph your perspective to fit your position...or the church's position at least.

And to have you know I'm a senior in high schoo. Not too big. But I do have a background on Physics(I passed the AP with a 4) I have a background in Biology(Passed AP with a 3) and environmental science(passed with a 4) I also passed, english, computer science and calculus. I'm more than likely a sophmore in college if all my credits are accepted.


But I don't throw them around to make others feel inferior to me. Honestly if that is all you have going for you then it's sad.

I refuse to read the pages you provided because those are Catholic and religiously affiliated pages. I read Time, newsweek and we talk about Stem Cell alot in Biology and Health class. That is it. Now whether my opinion was molded under the influence of those teachers who are pro-SCR then so be it.

The whole excuse over the Nazis is UNRELATED. It's very arbitrary to bring in the Nazi's to an issue that is not even close to what the Nazi's were about. The not only tested on humans they delibaretely tried to wipe out an entire race. Scientist are not trying to wipe out an entire race and they don't choose embryos based on anything other than to try to improve the general health of the world. There is no black market behind this and everything is done within the realm of science. And it's useless for you to keep telling me that the Nazis also believed that what they were doing were also "within the realm of science" because their views were not only skewed their motives might not have been for the health of humans and noting that they felt jews were inferior they might not even believe that their bodies were in anyway the same as the Azerian(sp)

Thats almost like if connected the Crusades to the war in Iraq or Afghanistan which to many believe it's almost a religious war. Are we trying to impose or views on them? To them we are Are christians taking advantage of this and going overthere and ridiculing away their belives and stating that Christianity is the only way? Yes. Are we hiding this under false pretences that it's what God wants us to do? Yes.

I'm not scared of the truth. The truth is that some people are too blinded by their *blind* faith and fail to recognize that not everything and not everyone looks at issues and connects them with a book.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote]But I don't throw them around to make others feel inferior to me.[/quote]
Rest assured, a highschool senior with a few AP classes isn't going to make many people feel inferior. It's kinda cute that you're concerned for us, though.

[quote]The whole excuse over the Nazis is UNRELATED. It's very arbitrary to bring in the Nazi's to an issue that is not even close to what the Nazi's were about.[/quote]
I made a comparison that shows the similarities. You have done nothing to refute my posts, aside from a little [i]ad hominem[/i].

[quote]The(y) not only tested on humans they delibaretely tried to wipe out an entire race. Scientist are not trying to wipe out an entire race and they don't choose embryos based on anything other than to try to improve the general health of the world.[/quote]
So if german scientists were performing immoral scientific experiments on the mentally retarded, would you find this problematic? The Jewish people were not the only victims of these "progressive scientists."

[quote]There is no black market behind this and everything is done within the realm of science.[/quote]
There is a market for human embryos. It's happening both legally (check NIH) and illegally, though never morally.

BTW, what is your definition of "the realm of science"? You've used this phrase a few times.

[quote]And it's useless for you to keep telling me that the Nazis also believed that what they were doing were also "within the realm of science" because their views were not only skewed their motives might not have been for the health of humans and noting that they felt jews were inferior they might not even believe that their bodies were in anyway the same as the Azerian(sp)[/quote]
That's a loooooong run-on sentence. Punctuation is your friend.

I think you mean Aryans. Though it's pretty obvious that the Nazi's believed in racial superiority, this really isn't germane (haha). Heck, scientists today think that monkeys, pigs, and mice are inferior; yet, they do all sorts of testing with animal subjects.

I suppose it's useless to keep telling you that what these scientists were doing was "within the realm of science" (whatever that means). But, if you don't want to believe me, go ahead and use your enlightened mind and do some research on the topic. In one of my earlier posts, I placed a link to a book on Amazon.com. The book I listed is a good start.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Nov 14 2004, 10:55 AM'] Iron,
How about being a "Pro-Life Democrat"? Isn't that just about like being a missionary to bring the good aspects of the Democratic Party, ie:
-Access to medical care
-Care for indigent
-Care for immigrants
-Having the 'haves' help the 'have-nots'

to the forefront of the Party movers and shakers and bringing those principals to bear on the other planks of the platform and defeating their support for death via abortion? [/quote]
To get those issues up and fix the platform will leaving the party do any good? Will we do more power as members than as a 3rd Party?

[XIX]

[quote]Do you think I honestly care? You can throw as many titles as me as youossible can but the truth is that you are partisan when it comes to your opinion and that even if you do have a "higher" education you're believes only make you shape and morph your perspective to fit your position...or the Church's position at least.[/quote]

As opposed to fitting one's Democratic Party position? Honestly, that assertion that I just made about you is no less baseless than the one you make about Catholics. You really have no concrete arguments to say that Catholics are blind followers, except for the fact that we all tend to agree with the Church. However, you could say the samep thing about Democrats or Republicans for that matter--they all tend to follow the party line. The only real difference is that Catholics firmly believe in Jesus Christ and the Church which He has established for us. I mean, it's not good to follow it blindly--you want to know enough about your faith to know why you believe what you believe. However, we also believe--fervently-- that this is the Church that God gave us, and if that is the case, then surely we should be able to put a lot of trust into it. I'm not trying to shove anything down your throat, I'm just trying to explain where we are coming from.

[quote]The whole excuse over the Nazis is UNRELATED. It's very arbitrary to bring in the Nazi's to an issue that is not even close to what the Nazi's were about. The not only tested on humans they delibaretely tried to wipe out an entire race. [/quote]

The point isn't why the people die. The point is that more humans perish due to being aborted/stem cell research than they did as a result of the Nazis. Whether somebody dies for the sake of science or for the sake of a super race, the end result is the same. That person is dead. And in the case of stem cell research, the embryo dies for nothing. Why do I say nothing? Because in 20+ years of stem research, not a single patient has ever been treated. That is a long, long time to be waiting on potential and promise. Granted, this isn't a mirror image of the Holocaust, but the end result is the same: millions die.

[quote]I refuse to read the pages you provided because those are Catholic and religiously affiliated pages. I read Time, newsweek and we talk about Stem Cell alot in Biology and Health class. That is it. Now whether my opinion was molded under the influence of those teachers who are pro-SCR then so be it. [/quote]

You seem to contradict yourself here. Why do you refuse to be brainwashed by people who are against SCR, yet you're fine with getting the same from somebody who is pro-SCR? Personally, I've read boatloads of SCR stuff from both sides of the issue, and have come to the conclusion that creating and destroying life to possibly (most likely never) save another person is just wrong.

[quote]and noting that they felt jews were inferior they might not even believe that their bodies were in anyway the same as the Azerian(sp)[/quote]

Right. And people today believe that the unborn are inferior.

[quote]I'm not scared of the truth. The truth is that some people are too blinded by their *blind* faith and fail to recognize that not everything and not everyone looks at issues and connects them with a book.[/quote]

I haven't sited the Bible once in this whole post!

God bless you!! :ph34r:

[jasJis]

SirMyztiq,
You should change your name to "SirMiztaken". You may be 'educated', but pendantic knowledge is not intelligence. Refusing to listen to another's viewpoint is insistence on ignorance.

If you had really 'read up' on embryonic research in something other than People magazine you would know that adult stem cells are the best hope because they have already produced cures. Embryonic stem cells are just a theoretical hope, and have not been able to produce anything because of their inherent instablity that they cannot direct or control. Valuable research $$ is being wasted on embryonic stem cells because of abortion politics, not because of efficacy. The money would be more productive if it was spent on adult stem cells, a more matured avenue, but the pro-abortionists would rather it be spent on embryonic stem cells because it removes some to the 'negative perceptions' of abortion.

If you didn't have 'politically correct' history and science books, you would know about the moral delimma that scientists have faced when deciding what information to use from the Nazi 'research'. The vast majority of what we know about thermal effects on humans is from Nazi 'experiments'. It has helped with the development of clothing for skin diving, artic exploration, space exploration, and heart surgery that cools the body. Ethics considers the objective and subjuctive value of actions and consequences. Humanity has long figured out that the ends do not justify the means. Get up to speed dude. Don't cling to archaic thought and think it's some great "Truth' we've forgotten or weren't ready for. Thinking outside the box means rising up, not falling out the bottom.