The Democratic Party is Evil.

[ironmonk]

The democratic party is evil because of the national agenda it has.

They aggressivly push:[list]
[*]Abortion
[*]Embrionic Stem Cell Research
[*]Free sex and the use of contraception
[*]same sex marriage
[*]Dependancy on welfare
[/list]



Please (humor me) re-read the list and think about it... really think about it before reading the rest. Please read the rest after you've thought about the above statement.














Does this post make you mad because it doesn't apply to you and you're a democrat?

It's here to prove a point.

It's here to get you to think for yourself.

Don't get caught up in 'group think'... there is no need to walk around with a chip on your shoulder.


Here's the answer to the critical thinking part....
If you are a democrat and you are against the above list, then the evil statement does not apply to you so don't think that this is about you.

Is it common knowledge that people are different? I would hope everyone says yes to this.

Is it common knowledge that we are limited into how much detail we can go into on a post? Again... yes.

Therefore, if you are in a group that someone makes a statement about, and the statement does not apply to you, then don't get offended and throw a temper tantrum (the term "temper tantrum" is meant to offend those who throw temper tantrums ).

Common knowledge does not need to be said.

People are going to disagree... if you disagree with this post, I still stand by it.

Does it make you mad that I can think different then you and believe something different then you do about the democratic party?

If it does, then you are in their control... and are a victim of group think.



Again, my point of this thread is not to go over the evils of the democratic national agenda.... my point is to get people here to pay attention to context and think for themselves.

We all know that not everyone fits the description of every general term in the English language.

Also, you might think that this thread will not get anyone to critically think... and that's fine... we disagree on that... if you want to call me ignorant or whatever because of it... then you are a victim of group think and lack critical thinking skills. Here are some websites that can make you a smarter thinker....

[url="http://www.criticalthinking.org/"]http://www.criticalthinking.org/[/url]

[url="http://www.ithaca.edu/library/Training/hott.html"]http://www.ithaca.edu/library/Training/hott.html[/url]

[url="http://www.ericfacility.net/ericdigests/ed385606.html"]http://www.ericfacility.net/ericdigests/ed385606.html[/url]




Knowledge is power... power to be able to defend your faith with logic and reason. Two tools which are invaluable to any Catholic, for logic and reason are rooted in truth. It is logic and reason which can help win those souls for Christ who truly love Him.



God Bless,
ironmonk

[Good Friday]

Ironmonk,

You're right.



















^ ^ ^ Now [i]there's[/i] something you don't see every day.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Nov 14 2004, 04:32 AM'] Ironmonk,

You're right.



















^ ^ ^ Now [i]there's[/i] something you don't see every day. [/quote]
LOL....

Thanks for posting bro... you know by you posting, that it will bring more people to the post because they'll expect another GF/IM battle... LOL


God Bless
ironmonk

[jasJis]

Iron,
How about being a "Pro-Life Democrat"? Isn't that just about like being a missionary to bring the good aspects of the Democratic Party, ie:
-Access to medical care
-Care for indigent
-Care for immigrants
-Having the 'haves' help the 'have-nots'

to the forefront of the Party movers and shakers and bringing those principals to bear on the other planks of the platform and defeating their support for death via abortion?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Nov 14 2004, 12:55 PM'] Iron,
How about being a "Pro-Life Democrat"? Isn't that just about like being a missionary to bring the good aspects of the Democratic Party, ie:
-Access to medical care
-Care for indigent
-Care for immigrants
-Having the 'haves' help the 'have-nots'

to the forefront of the Party movers and shakers and bringing those principals to bear on the other planks of the platform and defeating their support for death via abortion? [/quote]
Bro...

I think you misunderstood what the post was about... critical thinking.


The pro-life democrat you speak of does not fall into the statement of my original post, therefore is not evil.




God Bless,
ironmonk

[SirMyztiq]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 14 2004, 02:14 AM'] The democratic party is evil because of the national agenda it has.

They aggressivly push:[list]

[*]Abortion

[*]Embrionic Stem Cell Research

[*]Free sex and the use of contraception

[*]same sex marriage

[*]Dependancy on welfare

[/list]


Please (humor me) re-read the list and think about it... really think about it before reading the rest. Please read the rest after you've thought about the above statement.














[/quote]
Man I must be the devil then!

It's sad when people label pro-progress thinkers "evil"

Rats, now because some religious driven, blind and biased Christians think those are wrong the whole country should see that they are happy. I don't want to be evil but if you have to be "evil" to support freedom and freedom of choice then so be it.

"Dependancy on welfare"

Yes because all people in welfare are a bunch of lazy punks. There are many that take advantage of it. But what are we going to do about it. I know! Be a Republican and cut back on it!

"Abortion"
The only thing that we should base the qualifications on those who govern!...

"Embrionic Stem Cell Research"
Ohh NO! Now their using embryos for the better health of the future!

"Free sex and the use of contraception"
Yeah. Selling condoms = supporting *pre-marital* sex. Since we have to wait till marriage to have sex. SEX shouldn't be allowed before marriage period. Because our religion states it so. I DON'T care if you don't believe it or if you can care less about it! You'll eventually see it our way unless you want to BURN IN HELL! It's simple. Join us or go to hell! I don't care if contraception is useful when couples DON'T want to have babies. But if they don't then how are we going to push our agenda that all babies should be born regardless of what the woman thinks!!??

"Same sex marriage"

I don't care if it has NOTHING to do with my religion. I don't like it and neither should you.



There I have satirized your positions. The questions is how will you respond to it:

A. Will you bust out the Bible look for some quotes and then tell me how I'm lost and need to find Jesus again.

B. Call me stupid and tell me how ignorant I am. But you will fail to prove me wrong by actually telling me WHY you think those things are evil WITHOUT using your religion as proof. Because thats the way it should be.

C. You will post some numbers and data without providing me a link. Probably because the link comes from a partisan site.

D. Cheer each other on when one of you seem to actually post something that makes sense.

Edited November 15, 2004 by SirMyztiq

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote]"Embrionic Stem Cell Research"
Ohh NO! Now their using embryos for the better health of the future![/quote]

Human life as a commodity.

Under Hitler, German doctors ([url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195101065/qid=1100488977/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl14/103-7697920-3670265?v=glance&s=books&n=507846"]The Nazi Doctors link[/url]), inspired by the quest for "better health of the future," used the Jews and others in ghettos and concentration camps. According to the scientists, it didn't even matter whether the subjects of these experiments were human; they were going to be killed anyway...who could label these scientists as "evil"? They were just "pro-progress thinkers." LOL!

Oh, how history repeats itself...

Edited November 15, 2004 by Mateo el Feo

[SirMyztiq]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' date='Nov 14 2004, 10:19 PM']
Human life as a commodity.

Under Hitler, the Germans, inspired by the quest for "better health of the future," used the Jews and others in ghettos and concentration camps. According to the scientists, it didn't even matter whether they were human; they were going to be killed anyway...who could label them as "evil"? They were just "pro-progress thinkers." LOL!

Oh, how history repeats itself... [/quote]
Actually those were really just an excuse to kill Jews. The test that they were put under were in no way beneficial to the health of human kind but only beneficial to the hate Hitler had.

So your logic is pretty scary. But then again most of the logic used here is associated with out of the air excuses and rationalized only to fit your argument.

SCBR is in NO way comparable to what you just said. This is actually progress in the making and if you ever expect a cure for aids, cancer and other uncurable diseases then there is really no better way. Noting that humans are the most affected by those diseases.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 14 2004, 11:57 PM'] Man I must be the devil then!

It's sad when people label pro-progress thinkers "evil"

Rats, now because some religious driven, blind and biased Christians think those are wrong the whole country should see that they are happy. I don't want to be evil but if you have to be "evil" to support freedom and freedom of choice then so be it.

"Dependancy on welfare"

Yes because all people in welfare are a bunch of lazy punks. There are many that take advantage of it. But what are we going to do about it. I know! Be a Republican and cut back on it!

"Abortion"
The only thing that we should base the qualifications on those who govern!...

"Embrionic Stem Cell Research"
Ohh NO! Now their using embryos for the better health of the future!

"Free sex and the use of contraception"
Yeah. Selling condoms = supporting *pre-marital* sex. Since we have to wait till marriage to have sex. SEX shouldn't be allowed before marriage period. Because our religion states it so. I DON'T care if you don't believe it or if you can care less about it! You'll eventually see it our way unless you want to BURN IN HELL! It's simple. Join us or go to hell! I don't care if contraception is useful when couples DON'T want to have babies. But if they don't then how are we going to push our agenda that all babies should be born regardless of what the woman thinks!!??

"Same sex marriage"

I don't care if it has NOTHING to do with my religion. I don't like it and neither should you.



There I have satirized your positions. The questions is how will you respond to it:

A. Will you bust out the Bible look for some quotes and then tell me how I'm lost and need to find Jesus again.

B. Call me stupid and tell me how ignorant I am. But you will fail to prove me wrong by actually telling me WHY you think those things are evil WITHOUT using your religion as proof. Because thats the way it should be.

C. You will post some numbers and data without providing me a link. Probably because the link comes from a partisan site.

D. Cheer each other on when one of you seem to actually post something that makes sense. [/quote]
1. You missed the point of the post.

2. Ignorance is not bliss man. Why not try to understand why we believe what we do before insulting it out of ignorance?

There are perfectly logical and reasonable reasons.

If you aren't too lazy, then here are a few links where you can learn why.

If you want to be a zombie, it's your choice.... if you want to be told what to think then don't visit these links. To base our decissions from one sided reasons is a true sign of a fool that lacks the ability to critically think.


Simply put, the notion that embryonic stem cells are essential to advancing scientific knowledge and medical treatments is false.
[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1060"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1060[/url]

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3686"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3686[/url]



17. ...It is also to be feared that the man, growing used to the employment of anti-conceptive practices, may finally lose respect for the woman and, no longer caring for her physical and psychological equilibrium, may come to the point of considering her as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion....
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6HUMANA.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6HUMANA.HTM[/url]



Abortion; since secular man does not know where life begins, logically it is reasonable doubt that dictates that abortion should be outlawed as it has been for thousands of years because innocent life could be killed. From a secular scientific point of view without doubt, a innocent child is being killed.
[url="http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/abortion.asp"]http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/abortion.asp[/url]



People being dependant on walfare a plus?! Don't be a fool man. If you want to pay for lazy people, go right ahead, why do you want to force it on others?



Get the facts.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote]The test that they were put under were in no way beneficial to the health of human kind but only beneficial to the hate Hitler had[/quote]

False. There were efforts to actually do research. People made money by buying and selling organs, body parts, skeletons, etc. This wasn't all just driven by Hitler's blood lust for non-Aryans.

Using the same (il)logic, you could conclude that the concentration camps weren't used to help support the Nazi economy, but that Hitler just wanted the people in the camps to have a hard life before they were killed.

These scientists and doctors were interested in advancing science. They were interested in "progress." You could call them "progressives" with their eyes fixed on their utopian future (eradicating disease, etc), just like those who experiment on embryos.

[quote]So your logic is pretty scary. But then again most of the logic used here is associated with out of the air excuses and rationalized only to fit your argument.[/quote]

I made a clear parallel. Heck, why don't you share with us how you distinguish your own "progressive" view from the Nazi scientists' "progressive" view. Inquiring minds want to know!

[quote]SCBR is in NO way comparable to what you just said.[/quote]

Embryonic stem-cell research involves the destruction of human beings.

Being against embryonic stem-cell research (which kills a human being) is not the same as being against stem-cell research.

Embryonic stem-cells have not cured (or treated) a single disease (that's according to NIH). As a result of adult stem cell research, people have been successfully treated and lives have been saved.

[quote]This is actually progress in the making and if you ever expect a cure for aids, cancer and other uncurable diseases then there is really no better way. Noting that humans are the most affected by those diseases.[/quote]

Sounds like a bunch of unsubstantiated opinion.

Side note: AIDS is a virus. Those with AIDS will never be "cured." The best you can do is create a vaccine and/or try to bring it into remission for infected individuals.

BTW, how many cures would the Nazi doctors have to make before the deaths of their subjects (Jews, Gypsies, etc) were justified? Would the benefits somehow wipe away the evil that they commited?

Edited November 15, 2004 by Mateo el Feo

[SirMyztiq]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 14 2004, 10:41 PM'] 1. You missed the point of the post.

2. Ignorance is not bliss man. Why not try to understand why we believe what we do before insulting it out of ignorance?

There are perfectly logical and reasonable reasons.

If you aren't too lazy, then here are a few links where you can learn why.

If you want to be a zombie, it's your choice.... if you want to be told what to think then don't visit these links. To base our decissions from one sided reasons is a true sign of a fool that lacks the ability to critically think.


Simply put, the notion that embryonic stem cells are essential to advancing scientific knowledge and medical treatments is false.
[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1060"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1060[/url]

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3686"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3686[/url]



17. ...It is also to be feared that the man, growing used to the employment of anti-conceptive practices, may finally lose respect for the woman and, no longer caring for her physical and psychological equilibrium, may come to the point of considering her as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion....
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6HUMANA.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6HUMANA.HTM[/url]



Abortion; since secular man does not know where life begins, logically it is reasonable doubt that dictates that abortion should be outlawed as it has been for thousands of years because innocent life could be killed. From a secular scientific point of view without doubt, a innocent child is being killed.
[url="http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/abortion.asp"]http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/abortion.asp[/url]



People being dependant on walfare a plus?! Don't be a fool man. If you want to pay for lazy people, go right ahead, why do you want to force it on others?



Get the facts.

God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
I've tried. And that is what I get from it. It's not ignorance it's observation.

And I could care less about letters from the Pope or what some partisan Catholic research says.

Embryonic Stem Cell Research is not 'ESSENTIAL' but it's a way to find cures to diseases that we couldn't possibly find without proper testing. ESCR might not cure but it will revolutionaze the way we treat the diseases and how we go about fighting them. It will not take a day or a week for results. This is an on going scientific process to which we must be patient with.

And I know that I'm not being "told" what to think. Kind of ironic coming from you.

And the ugly;

I've heard plenty of BS from people like you that want to draw a parallel with two totally unrelated things. SCR is nothing like what the Nazis did. The killed grown humans and if they thought it was for progress then they really didn't know what they were talking about.

There is a right and proper scientific way to do it. And then theres an extreme, unethical way to do it.

SCR is actually making progress. And it will actually help. And we are not killing captured people and selling their bones. These are embryos...mostly frozen. Not crying women and children.

The extreme to which some people like to take things are really scary.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote]I've heard plenty of BS from people like you that want to draw a parallel with two totally unrelated things. SCR is nothing like what the Nazis did. The killed grown humans and if they thought it was for progress then they really didn't know what they were talking about. [/quote]

Is this secular logic at its finest? I won't go into the fallacies...

Anyway, the only differentiator that you mentioned is the adjective "grown." These scientists really [b]did[/b] know what they were doing and they advanced scientific knowledge. Later scientists have used the results of the German experimentation.

You also mentioned that the embryos are not crying. If you can't cry, you've forfeited your right to exist under the law?

So personhood is determined by your size and your ability to cry. Is this your criteria?

Maybe you'll catch the fact that size and ability to cry are no more arbitrary than a person's religion, economic status, or skin tone.

Let's look at your position: "embryonic stem-cell research is nothing like what the Nazis did." Here are the similarities:

1) An economy of buying and selling humans and/or their body parts.
2) A denial of the subject's personhood because of size/age (e.g. embryos) or ethnicity (e.g. Jewish).
3) A belief that the subjects might as well be used because "they will die anyway."
4) Scientists defending their immoral actions by claiming to make scientific progress and help humanity by learning how to better treat and cure disease.

Honestly, I have no idea how someone from you perspective could determine what is "unethical." There is no right/wrong in your relativist world view. Even if you personally held a belief in right/wrong, your position has no foundation. Yesterday's "wrong" could easily become tomorrow's "right."

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote]And I know that I'm not being "told" what to think. Kind of ironic coming from you.[/quote]

Just curious: could you explain this statement and its irony?

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
11/15 - St. Albertus Magnus

I've seen something applied to another situation, but I think it will work here.

A Democrat is evil, mathematically...

Everyone knows, Democrats cost time and money.

Democrats = Time x Money

But Time is money.

Democrats = Money x Money

But, according to Paul, money is the root of all evil.

Money = root(Evil).

So,

Democrats = root(Evil)

Therefore,

Democrat = Evil

(equally applicable to Republicans )

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Nov 15 2004, 06:19 AM'] Democrat = Evil

(equally applicable to Republicans ) [/quote]
I'm afraid that such will be the case in any politico-economic system in which freedom and money are seen as the highest end of man.