More on Sola Scriptura

[mark3200]

Brian,

Thanks again for the offer of information. No, unfortunately I wasn't exagerrating too much.

The CC has a doctrine known as in persona Christi, or "in the person of Christ". Basically when I confess to a priest, I am confessing to Christ himself. It has to do with Christ handing the keys of heaven to Peter prior to ascention, etc. It is not the priest who forgives, but Christ working through the priest - regardless of the priest's own state of grace. I know it sounds superficial in my handling of the topic (it really deserves far more space than I am giving it), but it makes sense to me. It also follows the whole line of reasoning that CS Lewis uses in Mere Christianity when he addresses communion as a supernatural event ("God likes matter. He invented it."). The sacraments of the Church revolve around physical acts, objects, etc. I didn't get a whole lot of that before I became Catholic. I realize that it may make me seem "weak", but that's OK with me. I need to hear Christ tell me I'm forgiven. I need to know that it's truly Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity that's present in the Eucharist. I like it when the priest annoints with the oil when I'm sick. That's cool with me.

I don't hold anything against my spiritual roots. On the contrary, I know the Bible much better then most "cradle Catholics" thanks to my protestant upbringing (and the Navigators). But for my spiritual growth, I have to be Catholic. In truth, I have grown closer to God since my conversion than I ever had previously. It appeals to my reason, intellect, and senses. I don't get the evil eye anymore when I tell people at church that I make beer and wine as a hobby. The people at church don't kick out the pastor when they don't like him (although they can appeal to the Bishop). The Catholic Church works for me. It's like in the Gospel of John, after Christ has told the people that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood, and many leave when He doesn't back down. Then, He looks at the 12 and asks them if they're leaving too. Peter responds with, "Master, you have the words of life, where else would we go?"

My $0.02

Mark

[Briguy]

Hi Guys, lots of stuff to think about here.

CatholicCrusader said: "can you make a logical argument for the fact that none of the early Christians believed as you do"

I do not believe this statement. In fact it seems to me that the bible writers, the very first Christians, did believe as I do and that is why my "doctrine" has more scriptual support then Catholic doctrine has. If Catholic doctrine had as much or more support I do not believe that as much would be made out of tradition and Papacy being authoritative. That was a logic argument, btw.

CatholicC, there are too many questions on that sight to know what to answer and many are not answerable, as you know. Or if I give a scripture reference are you going to accept it??

I will try to tackle at least one thing later so i don't look like I am dodging questions.

Hey Thess. ( I had a memory that your name was Gerald, is that right or am I thinking of someone else?)
Anyway, Judas was a special case in some ways. It appears from scripture that he was never saved but only God knows the heart of man. He certainly had great remorse for what he did, that is for certain. Jesus said that there would be those at judgement who said say that they did mighty works in his name but to them he would say depart, you NEVER knew me. It does not say you knew me and fell away. For Judas and the when disciples went out and when Jesus sent the 70 out, they were given direct authority and power from God. This was special and could be bestowed on anybody, believer or not, in the same way god made a donkey speak. This is not however the work of spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit. Those who healed and did miracles later were given a "gift" to do so that was based on their being "saved". Furthurmore, I worked with a guy who I really trusted and I thought the world of. He was as kind, caring , and as compassionate as anyone I have ever known, before or since. He was my trusted friend but not my "brother". I still pray he gets saved someday. Please quote the verse in question which uses "trusted friend" so I can see for sure if i am on the right path.

Mark, thanks for the kind post. I will be getting back to you.

God's peace to all,
Brian