Manhood

[BLAZEr]

Ok Jake, I was just making sure. My mother and all of her siblings were confirmed at their baptism. (before Vatican II) and my understanding has been that the earlies tradition of the Church was that Baptism and Confirmation were given together, folled by First Communion . . .

To be honest with you, I think there is a lot of revisionist sacramental history going on in the Church. My gut reaction is to say "are you SURE that's the tradition of the Church." You hear it everytime you talk to a 'liturgist' who says that Trent distorted the way that Christians worship and that Vatican II restored the earlier and truer form of Eucharistic celebration with a focus on the community. Pshaw! As if!

From the Catechism:

Two traditions: East and West

1290 In the first centuries Confirmation generally comprised one single celebration with Baptism, forming with it a "double sacrament," according to the expression of St. Cyprian. Among other reasons, the multiplication of infant baptisms all through the year, the increase of rural parishes, and the growth of dioceses often prevented the bishop from being present at all baptismal celebrations. In the West the desire to reserve the completion of Baptism to the bishop caused the temporal separation of the two sacraments. The East has kept them united, so that Confirmation is conferred by the priest who baptizes. But he can do so only with the "myron" consecrated by a bishop.[100]

1291 A custom of the Roman Church facilitated the development of the Western practice: a double anointing with sacred chrism after Baptism. The first anointing of the neophyte on coming out of the baptismal bath was performed by the priest; it was completed by a second anointing on the forehead of the newly baptized by the bishop.[101] The first anointing with sacred chrism, by the priest, has remained attached to the baptismal rite; it signifies the participation of the one baptized in the prophetic, priestly, and kingly offices of Christ. If Baptism is conferred on an adult, there is only one post-baptismal anointing, that of Confirmation.

1292 The practice of the Eastern Churches gives greater emphasis to the unity of Christian initiation. That of the Latin Church more clearly expresses the communion of the new Christian with the bishop as guarantor and servant of the unity, catholicity and apostolicity of his Church, and hence the connection with the apostolic origins of Christ's Church.

Here's JP2 on the sacrament http://www.trincomm.org/research/retrieve_....cfm?RecNum=582

And of course, the Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04215b.htm

[BlueRose]

According to Ernest Hemmingway, one becomes a man when he 1)Has a child of his own, 2)Publishes a book, & 3)Runs with the bulls.

[jasJis]

Confirmation is the third and final Sacrament of Initiation into the Church. We receive gifts of the Holy Spirit that perfect and strengthen our Faith and enables us to be soldiers for Christ. We also get a spriirtual seal. Read the Catechism.

As with all Sacraments, we get the graces, but spend our lives learning to utilize our gifts of grace. The Western tradition lies in the concept that these particualr gifts are gifts utilized with reason. If we get them as infants, there isn't much we can do with them until later. Confirmation is given at a bit older age in the hope the Candidate will be catechized about the gifts and be more likely to use them all.

We still derive a certain benifit from the graces despite our understanding which is why Eastern Churches Confirm at baptism. The US Church is moving that way anyway along with an effort for better catechesis of adults and older kids.

Here's a little known fact. Just like Baptism, we can (and should) give that Sacrament if we come accross someone dying. Who can tell me why??

[Paladin D]

So in simple terms? :D

[Guest jrob8503]

Well don't you remember? I told you in December that a boy is not a man until he makes a stand.

[Aloysius]

u're all nuts

everyone knows a boy becomes a man at a barmitzva! B)

:lol:

[Paladin D]

Seriously guys.