Sarcasm

[thirsty-for-orthodoxy]

I am a new member here and I now that I have not seen all of the phorums, but I sense a great deal of sarcasm in the responses and refutations. Now call me crazy, but i don't think this attitude of sarcasm is going to convey our real love of Christ and his church. I know that for many people sarcasm is the easieat way to deal with issues, (especially ones they're passionate about,) but I also know that sarcasm eats away at other's views on our sincerety of our love for each other and ultimately for Christ. I challange everyone out there to be sincere and considerate of others.

May God bless you and hold you in the palm of His hand.

[cmotherofpirl]

Welcome to Phatmass.

Charity, like purity, is a virtue we strive for, we don't always succeed.

[thessalonian]

I will say one thing about sarcasm. Both Paul and Jesus used it. I don't have time at the moment but will provide some examples later. It must of course be used judiciously. Many times it is not, by me as well.

Thess

[thessalonian]

Examples of sarcasm from Paul:

2 Cor. 11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
2 Cor. 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Galatians 1:10
For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

We must also remember that Jesus many times was no Rodney king, using phrases such as "brood of vipers" and "casting pearls before swine". John also says in his letters if someone comes to your door preaching another Gospel don't even welcome them. So I think there has to be some tough love in the Christian message.

Blessings

Edited November 11, 2004 by thessalonian

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Nov 11 2004, 02:36 PM'] Examples of sarcasm from Paul:

2 Cor. 11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
2 Cor. 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Galatians 1:10
For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

We must also remember that Jesus many times was no Rodney king, using phrases such as "brood of vipers" and "casting pearls before swine". John also says in his letters if someone comes to your door preaching another Gospel don't even welcome them. So I think there has to be some tough love in the Christian message.

Blessings [/quote]
None of the verses you quoted were sarcastic.

As far as tough teaching, yes, very much so that is true, and it is completely lacking today. As far as sarcasm: it is rude and uncharitable, and there is no place in the Bible that you can find such a comment.

[Lil Red]

actually, i did find a resource that listed sarcasm in the Bible:

[url="http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/Nave/ID/4280"]Source[/url]

Sarcasm
(From Nave's Topical Bible)

INSTANCES OF
Cain’s self-justifying argument when God asked him where Abel was
Genesis 4:9

Israelites reproaching Moses
Exodus 14:11

God reproaching Israel
Numbers 11:20; Judges 10:14

Balak reproaching Balaam
Numbers 24:11

Joshua to the descendants of Joseph
Joshua 17:15

By Jotham
Judges 9:7-19

By Samson
Judges 14:18

The men of Jabesh to Nahash
1 Samuel 11:10

Eliab to David
1 Samuel 17:28

Elijah to the priests of Baal
1 Kings 18:27

David’s reply to Michal’s irony
2 Samuel 6:21

Ahab’s reply to Ben-hadad
1 Kings 20:11

Jehoash to Amaziah
2 Kings 14:9,10; 2 Chronicles 25:18,19

Rabshakeh to Hezekiah
2 Kings 18:23,24

Sanballat’s address to the army of Samaria
Nehemiah 4:2,3

Zophar to Job
Job 11:12

Job to Zophar
Job 12:2,3

Of Solomon
Proverbs 26:16

The persecutors of Jesus
Matthew 27:28,29; Luke 23:11; John 19:2,3,5,15

Paul
1 Timothy 4:7

Herod Agrippa II to Paul
Acts 26:28


[url="http://home.ccci.org/howies/ResourceWeb/bible.htm#sarcasm"]Source[/url]
Sarcasm

A form of Irony that is deliberately intended to hurt or offend; always intentional.

1. Saul too went home to Gibeah and with him went the mighty men whose hearts God had touched. But there were some scoundrels who said, "How can this fellow save us?" They despised him, and offered him no present. 1 Samuel 10:26,27 [JB]


2. When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, "How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, disrobing in the sight of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!" 2 Samuel 6:20


3. As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. Proverbs 26:11


4. When Yahweh spoke through Hosea, Yahweh said this to him, "Go, marry a whore, and get children with a whore, for the country itself has become nothing but a whore by abandoning Yahweh." Hosea 1:2 [JB]


5. "How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?" Luke 6:42a

Edited November 11, 2004 by Lil Red

[Lil Red]

Sorry, found one more thing that was interesting....

[url="http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/economic/friedman/bibhumor.htm"]Source[/url]

[b][u]Sarcasm[/b][/u]
In the Hebrew Bible, evil people are often very sarcastic, in keeping with their characters. Of course, Biblical sarcasm is not limited to evildoers; ordinary people, leaders, and even God may occasionally indulge.

[b][u]In the Five Books of Moses:[/b][/u]
The Bible tells us very little about Dathan and Aviram. They were just two Israelites who complained during the forty year sojourn in the wilderness. The way they complained, however, made them stand out, even amongst a group of perpetual complainers. When Korach’s rebellion against Moses started, Moses attempted to make peace and summoned Dathan and Aviram, Korach’s co-conspirators. Their complaint to Moses dripped with so much sarcasm that it caused Moses to immediately protest to God about them. They told Moses (Numbers 16:13): "Is it but a small thing that you have brought us up out of [Egypt] a land flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the wilderness, but you also have to lord over us?" The "land of milk and honey" was a term used to describe the promised land of Israel, not Egypt. We learn a good deal about the personalities of Dathan and Aviram from their nasty remark to Moses.

We also learn much about the character of the Israelites from their way of asking Moses for help seven days after their triumphant exodus from Egypt. They saw Pharaoh’s army approaching behind them, and all that loomed ahead was the sea. The nascent Jewish nation asked Moses (Exodus 14:11): "Was there a lack of graves in Egypt, that you took us away to die in the wilderness?" This impudent remark made when all seemed hopeless for the Israelites sheds much light on their character. It would seem that humility and prayer might have been a more appropriate response in a time of great danger than sarcasm.

One is not surprised to learn that eventually these complainers went too far with their sarcastic and loathsome remarks and came to an ignominious end. The Israelites, totally demoralized by the report of the spies, complained to Moses that the inhabitants of Canaan were clearly much too strong to defeat, and said (Numbers 14:2): "We wish we had died in the land of Egypt, or in this desert would we had died." God’s response (Numbers 14:28-29) to Moses and Aaron was to tell the Israelites that: "Surely as you have spoken in My ears, so I will do to you. In this desert your carcasses shall fall." The text indicates that the Israelite adults did indeed die in the desert over the next 39 years; their children made it to the promised land.

[b][u]In the Prophets:[/u][/b]
When David found out that King Saul wished to kill him, he fled from Israel and went to Gath. Fearful that Achish, King of Gath, would have him killed, David pretended to be insane. David scribbled on the doors of the gates and allowed saliva to dribble down into his beard. When his servants brought David to him, Achish said (I Samuel 21:15-16): "Why did you bring him to me? Do I lack lunatics that you have brought this one to carry on insanely in my presence?"

Rabshakeh joined the Assyrian king Sennacherib in his military action against the Israelite King Hezekiah. Rabshakeh impudently offered King Hezekiah’s officers 2,000 horses (II Kings 18:23) "if you can put riders on them." When King Hezekiah’s officers asked Rabshakeh not to speak the Judean language (Hebrew) but Aramaic, a language the soldiers on the wall did not understand, not only did Rabshakah not comply with this request, but his reply -- in Hebrew -- was (II Kings 18:27): "Is it to your master and to you that my master has sent me to speak these words? Is it not to the people sitting on the wall, who will eat their dung and drink their urine with you [in the famine that would result from a siege]?"

God is sometimes sarcastic, especially when upset or exasperated with the Jewish people, who continually test Him. When the Jewish people, who were engaging in idol worship, cried to God about the neighboring peoples (such as the Philistines) who were oppressing them (Judges 10:14), God told them: "Go and cry to the gods which you have chosen; let them rescue you in the time of your torment." This sounds very mortal-like, much like the woman saying to her husband who has strayed and then wants to return: "Now you come to me. Why don’t you go back to …" Also, parents have said similar words to children who return when they need help and realize that their "best" friends are not there for them in times of trouble. By using sarcasm in this way, the text makes God seem more understandable and less aloof. Apparently, even omniscience and omnipotence do not prevent one from being hurt by straying children.

Elijah’s remarks to the prophets of Baal are steeped in sarcasm. [Knox (1969) cites this as well, but considers this an example of irony.] Referring to their false deity, Elijah told them (I Kings 18:27): "Call with a loud voice, for he is a god. Perhaps he is talking, or he is pursuing enemies, or he is relieving himself, or perhaps he is sleeping and will awaken."

[b][u]In the Writings:[/u][/b]
Sarcasm is used in Psalms to ridicule idolaters. The Psalmist (115:4-8) says: "Their idols are silver and gold, the handiwork of man. They have a mouth, but they cannot speak; they have eyes, but they cannot see. They have ears, but they cannot hear; they have a nose, but they cannot smell. Their hands cannot feel; their feet cannot walk; they cannot speak with their throat. Those who make them should become like them, all who put their trust in them."

Upon returning from Moab, where she lost her husband, two sons, and all her wealth, Naomi said to the residents of Bethlehem (Ruth 1:20): "Do not call me Naomi [which means the pleasant one]; call me marah [the bitter one]."

Job became quite sarcastic after his life became miserable and the Book of Job is replete with sarcastic remarks. Job’s explanation regarding the righteous person that suffers was (Job 12:4): "The completely righteous man is a laughingstock." Job demanded to confront God and know the reason for all his suffering. Job’s wish was granted, and God said to him (Job 38:4): "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" Or, in other words, when you create your own world, then you can tell me how to run mine.

[qfnol31]

Sarcasm is sometimes necessarily, but probably not often. I'm probably really bad about it myself.

[dUSt]

Sarcasm is horrible. I never use it.

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='Nov 11 2004, 03:19 PM'] actually, i did find a resource that listed sarcasm in the Bible:
[/quote]
Oh, yes, you are right. Of course there is sarcasm in the Bible. What I meant to say was that not by someone such as St. Paul instructing in how to act. It is always and act that is wrong and condemned. I should have been more clear; sorry.

[Lil Red]

to dUST:

yeah right *snorts*

oops, was that sarcasm?

to get back to what thirsty for orthodoxy was saying....i think sometimes it gets out of hand, but we're human....we're sinners....and all we can do is try our best to be charitable.

[J.R.D]

Sp your saying you never used sarcasm to anyone?

Yea right?

everyone has ... sometimes its good sometimes its bad... you can be using sracasm and not even know it ... but Sarcasm is part of speech so why get rid of it?

[azaelia]

I am a sarcastic person by nature, but I try not to let it leak into debates, although sometimes it does unintentionally. It's so easy to do, and hard to prevent. But sometimes sarcasm is warranted, and sometimes it's not. We just need to discern when those times are.

[thirsty-for-orthodoxy]

[quote]Sp your saying you never used sarcasm to anyone?[/quote]

That is taking what i said out of context. I am human, and as such i am not perfect. In fact I am far from perfect and I know that I am a sinner. Just because I have used sarcasm even though I speak out against it doesn't make sarcasm right. Sarcasm is something that I still struggle with but I am trying to correct that fault as I believe we should all make an effort to do.

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback on the subject.

May God bless you and keep you in the palm of his hand.
TFO

[Snarf]

Sarcasm is a form of irony, and irony in itself is often crucial to establishing a point. It's pretty often used in derision, but it doesn't have to be. My favorite biblical line of irony is "When your son asks for an egg, do you hand him a scorpion?" I forget the verse, though. My favorite characters from The Tick were always El Seed and Sarcastro. I think that if you take offense to sarcasm, it's quite often not because you've been caustically victimized but rather because you take yourself too seriously.