Catholic Economic Theory

[Socrates]

Per request of God Conquers from another thread, here's a poll/thread on economic theory. Let the debating begin!
(PS: If you don't know what Distributism is, go here: [url="http://www.distributism.com"]Distributism.com[/url].)

Edited November 11, 2004 by Socrates

[Balthazor]

Are you talking about land redistribution in Latin America and sub-Saharan Africa?

[CatholicforChrist]

I voted for distributism because that is the best possible system post-Industrial Revolution. Industrialization was the biggest disaster in human history, economically speaking. It also has caused irreprobale social consequences; it is truly a very sad thing. I know that the Society of Saint John (before the scandal) was looking to buy some land in the country somewhere and to live there with Traditional Catholics (or any Catholic, but it would be Traditional Latin Mass). I wish I could've done that, but they never went through with it because of the problems in that Order. In any event, I think there is still another group of people seeking to set up a similar thing. Imagine The Village, but Catholic and it would be openly honest about society.

[CatholicforChrist]

I need to post again, after reading the website (I did not think it was necessary to read it because I already knew about distributism). Everyone, go to this website now, and read the How to Make It Happen section. Go to "Some practical, at-home ideas could include:" and read all of those. Then, if possible, follow that to the best of your ability. We have some families at my church who do this. It is such a wonderful thing to see. I still live with my parents, so I cannot exactly do these things yet, but it is a great way to truly establish a sort of Catholic culture at the home. Also, for all the pro-Industrialization, pro-Capitalism people, go to the Wage Slave Test (on the sidebar) to see how truly free you are. Also, go to the Compare Them page to see which system is best!

[Azriel]

From the Distributism site - practical tips.

[quote]Sledge your television and any other intrinsically evil devices that invade your imagination and stunt your ambition.  Replace it with what it replaced:  the liturgical calendar (feasts and fasts), parlor games, chamber or folk music, sacred art production, etc.

Sever your home internet connection and replace it with what it replaced:  real human relationships, with all their flowers and thorns.[/quote]

Anyone else find it humorous that you are reading those tips from a Website?

[Guest Aluigi]

I'm witholding my vote as an undecided

But isn't President Bush leaning semi-distributist with his campaign "a society of [b]ownership[/b]" and his idea to simplify the tax code and abolish the IRS? I know he's not like, extreme distributist, but couldn't he be considered more distributist leaning while like, Kerry would've been more socialist leaning?

[Guest Aluigi]

bump

[Socrates]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Nov 11 2004, 02:26 PM'] From the Distributism site - practical tips.



Anyone else find it humorous that you are reading those tips from a Website? [/quote]
I thought it was ironic too.

And the site name extension ("distributism [i]dot com[/i]") was also ironic (sounds kinda capitalist).

(not that this adds anything to the debate).


My problems with distributism are more that it's impracticle. I'm all for some of distributist ideas (such as removing most taxes on the small business owner) but strongly against others (gov't confiscation of "excess" property) (Basically I'm for less taxes and gov't interference all round - call me a libertarian-distibutist-capitalist )

Personally I think it would be great if everyone smahed their T.V., etc.!
But I think a lot of ditributist ideals would be better as personal lifestyle choices (being less reliant on media/technology, more self-sufficient, etc.) than as a system enforced by the government.

Beleive it or not, this whole distibutism/capitalism debate was a huge issue between some people I knew and got rather ugly. I prefer to hear others debate.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 11 2004, 02:46 PM'] I'm witholding my vote as an undecided

But isn't President Bush leaning semi-distributist with his campaign "a society of [b]ownership[/b]" and his idea to simplify the tax code and abolish the IRS? I know he's not like, extreme distributist, but couldn't he be considered more distributist leaning while like, Kerry would've been more socialist leaning? [/quote]
I'd probably say yes (though neither candidate would be acceptable to a hardcore distributist.)

I regard the Dem party as rather socialist-leaning (welfare state).

[Balthazor]

I am still awaiting an answer to my query....

[Socrates]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Nov 11 2004, 05:15 PM'] I am still awaiting an answer to my query.... [/quote]
I thought you were joking. It has nothing to do with land redistribution in those places. For an idea of what Distibutism (not land redistribution!) is, go to the website (though I think that website actually represents a more extreme version of distributist theory.)

Distributism is an economic theory proposed by some as an alternative to capitalism and socialism (though some argue that it is, in practice, socialism)
Distributism (in short) wants to destroy big corporations, ensure land ownershop for everyone, outlaw insurance companies and financial corporations, and limit technology, among other things.

Perhaps some others can explain it better.

[crusader1234]

Rerum Novarum shoots both Socialism and Capitalism and so does Quadrisegima Anno. I'm more of a distributist, but as thats usually not a political choice (and no, George Bush isn't distributive, he's Capitalist) so I'd be more inclined to vote Socialist.

[drewmeister2]

"Distributism is an economic theory proposed by some as an alternative to capitalism and socialism (though some argue that it is, in practice, socialism)
Distributism (in short) wants to destroy big corporations, ensure land ownershop for everyone, outlaw insurance companies and financial corporations, and limit technology, among other things."

Wow, if distributism has all this, I hope it doesn't happen! We need insurance companies, because everyone gets ripped off by companies these days, and we also need them for car accidents, house fires, etc. It is ok to have technology, as long as it is used properly, and not used for things like fetal stem cell research. Just what I think! lol

[qfnol31]

I believe the thing that's wrong with capitalism is the idea that morality is wrong, and that people are looking for private vices. Leo XIII says that a free market economy is best, and that all people have the right to private property, and that classes are okay, but everyone should strive to work together and that the classes should be okay with where they are (unless they're poor, in which case the richer should help out), and that private property should be used for the good of all, but it is private.

[Socrates]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 11 2004, 08:02 PM'] I believe the thing that's wrong with capitalism is the idea that morality is wrong, and that people are looking for private vices. Leo XIII says that a free market economy is best, and that all people have the right to private property, and that classes are okay, but everyone should strive to work together and that the classes should be okay with where they are (unless they're poor, in which case the richer should help out), and that private property should be used for the good of all, but it is private. [/quote]
The idea that morality is wrong is not intrinsically part of capitalism. That is a moral theory. Capitalism is an economic system (I think I mean the same thing as you mean by "free market economy").
Moral and immoral things can be done in a capitalist system, as in any other system, but a capitalist system does not necessitate immorality.