anglican catholic

[HomeTeamFamily]

yea i know theres alot of possibilities......my problem here is that id much rather type on messenger about it, and she would rather talk in person about it, so i dunno

ill try and gather some more info tonite

thanks for the help pham, pray that i rep our faith well!!!

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Colleen' date='Nov 9 2004, 09:12 PM'] The Anglican Catholic Church isn't the Roman Catholic Church . . . it's part of the Church of England, so they don't believe in the authority of the Pope, among other things. However, I think that those who describe them as "Anglican Catholics" are more . . . traditional perhaps? in their beliefs. I may be mistaken, but I think the more traditional Anglicans are very similar to Roman Catholics in their beliefs about faith and morality. I think it's kind of complex, so maybe someone who has more knowledge in this area could explain. . . .

But they aren't in communion with Rome. [/quote]
Close. There isn't really such a thing as the "Anglican Catholic Church" (though with the bazillion new churches a day springing up it wouldn't shock me)"Anglo-catholics" are anglicans* who respect some (or most) Catholic traditions that are sometimes missing in anglican churches.

*Anglican refers to any baptised member of a church that's in the anglican communion. the Church of England is only one of many, though it was the first.

[quote]Anglican Catholics don't follow the Pope. They were created by King Henry 8 in 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.[/quote]

Whilst I know what you mean, this needs clarifying.

Henry VIII strongly desired a male heir to the English throne as a female monarch would have had to marry a foreign king. The most likely candidate would have been a spaniard (who would have become king and "wrecked" the place (at least in Henry's mind)). When his first marriage failed to produce a child he petitioned the Archbishop of Canterbury (at that time Catholic) for an annulment. The matter went back to the Pope, who on the "advice" of the Spanish king (he threatened to kill him) decided against it.

Henry then behaved like a spoiled child and took personal patronage of the english church, which was officially named the "church of england". Until Henry's death it was almost totally Catholic.

Edward (next king) added loads of Protestant doctrines and messed the whole thing up. Mary I (queen after) pushed Catholicism back into play and killed all the protestant bishops in the way (mostly a minority.)

Elizabeth I came to the throne, took the middle ground (the "via media" i.e. the wishy-washy liberal church of England you see today) and re-schismed the church. It was the church under Elizabeth I that was formally excommunicated.

The "anglo-catholic" wing resurfaced in the ninteenth century (when Catholics were emancipated) under Henry Newman (who later converted to Catholicism and became a Cardinal).

Summary: "anglo-catholics" are protestant: anglican use catholics are catholic.

Edited November 9, 2004 by RandomProddy

[dUSt]

Back in the day there were several Anglican parishes that decided to convert to Catholicism. They were granted special permission to retain some of their Anglican traditions and adopt them into their liturgy. This is why you'll see a few "Anglican Usage of the Roman Rite" Catholic churches. As far as doctrine and loyalty to the pope, they are 100% Catholic and 100% loyal to the pope. In fact, I live near an Anglican use Catholic church and they seem to promote orthodox Catholicism and authority to the pope more than the original Roman Rite Catholic churches around me, which is sad. I enjoy attending mass their, as it's the only parish in town that still uses incense.

Now, don't get these select few parishes confused with the original Anglican denomination, which is still 100% Protestant.

Hope this helps. Here's a link to the parish I'm talking about which gives a good explanation of the "Anglican Usage" churches: [url="http://www.stmarythevirgin.org/"]http://www.stmarythevirgin.org/[/url]

Click on "About St Marys" and then read the article to newcomers and visitors.

[dUSt]

[i][b]What is the Pastoral Provision?[/b]
The Pastoral Provision is a generous arrangement made by the Holy See in 1980 for those who were formerly priests and laypeople in the Episcopal Church and who now wish to enter the Roman Catholic Church while retaining some of the elements of their Anglican heritage and customs. Notably, this allows for the possibility of former Episcopal priests (including those who are married) being ordained to the Roman Catholic priesthood, and for continuance of an "Anglican syle" liturgy (approved by the Vatican) in The Book of Divine Worship.

[b]What is a Personal Parish for the Anglican Use?[/b]
Unlike a normal geographical parish which exists for those who live in a particular area, a Personal Parish exists for a particular kind of persons -- in this case those who are former Anglicans, those married to former Anglicans, their relatives, those who come new to the Catholic Church through such a parish, and so on. Of course, any Roman Catholic is welcome to worship and share in the life at an Anglican Use Parish.[/i]

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Nov 9 2004, 11:39 PM'] Back in the day there were several Anglican parishes that decided to convert to Catholicism. They were granted special permission to retain some of their Anglican traditions and adopt them into their liturgy. [/quote]
Back in the day (pre-Vatican II) I think they were the only rite that had an english-language mass..

Edited November 9, 2004 by RandomProddy

[HomeTeamFamily]

so i should ask her to clairfy if she is an "anglo-catholic" or went to an anglican use catholic church?

the former is protestant and reception of the eucharist is not permitted
if she went to an anglican use catholic church, then all of the roman catholic stuff is still good for her right?

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Nov 9 2004, 11:48 PM'] so i should ask her to clairfy if she is an "anglo-catholic" or went to an anglican use catholic church?

the former is protestant and reception of the eucharist is not permitted
if she went to an anglican use catholic church, then all of the roman catholic stuff is still good for her right? [/quote]
I'm not sure of how the term is used in the US but in England an "anglo-catholic" is almost always anglican.

If it's a catholic-style anglican church, it's protestant and Catholics are not allowed (according to the Magisterium) to [i]actively[/i] participate (though anglicans themselves welcome catholics).

If it's an anglican-use catholic church then, as stated, it's catholic.

There is a problem with nomenclature here. "Anglo-Catholic" literally means "English-Catholic" (think "Anglo-Saxon") and "Anglo-" doesn't specify whether English by race, English by language or "English by religion" (which would be "anglican which, literally means "english person", Again, not necessarily english by race...)

Edited November 9, 2004 by RandomProddy

[dUSt]

[quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Nov 9 2004, 04:48 PM'] so i should ask her to clairfy if she is an "anglo-catholic" or went to an anglican use catholic church?

the former is protestant and reception of the eucharist is not permitted
if she went to an anglican use catholic church, then all of the roman catholic stuff is still good for her right? [/quote]
Right. The only "Anglican" anything that would be a legitimate Catholic would be a Catholic that attends an "Anglican Usage of the Roman Rite" Catholic church. Even then, she would have had to either already been Catholic or a convert to Catholicism. (ie - just because the parish changed to Catholic doesn't mean that all the former members were automatically converted. They would have had to all convert to Catholicism individually)

[RandomProddy]

Anglo: "An English-speaking person, especially a white North American who is not of Hispanic or French descent."

"In contemporary American usage, Anglo is used primarily in direct contrast to Hispanic or Latino. In this context it is not limited to persons of English or even British descent, but can be generally applied to any non-Hispanic white person. Thus in parts of the United States with large Hispanic populations, an American of Polish, Irish, or German heritage might be termed an Anglo just as readily as a person of English descent."

Note: In the British Isles "Anglo" is sometimes used as a racist remark by Irish and Scots against English. The irony being is that the same people would be probably referred to as "anglo" in America....

Edited November 9, 2004 by RandomProddy

[HomeTeamFamily]

ok i see....i will try and get some further clairification and then report back in

i really appreciate all this help

im starting to understand

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Nov 9 2004, 11:13 PM'] i ask because one of my friends here at school says she is a "anglican catholic" but she goes to the same church i do... [/quote]
Is she English?

[HomeTeamFamily]

i dont believe so

[Sinner]

St. Mary the Virgin Episcopal Church in Arlington, Texas, under the pastorship of Father Allan Hawkins became St. Mary the Virgin Catholic Church, with the entire congregation, and Father Hawkins himself, becoming full members of the Catholic Church.

After much agonizing, the entire parish voted to petition Catholic Bishop Joseph P. Delaney about such a possibility in June 1991. The congregation and Father Hawkins were received

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Sinner' date='Nov 9 2004, 07:16 PM'] St. Mary the Virgin Episcopal Church in Arlington, Texas, under the pastorship of Father Allan Hawkins became St. Mary the Virgin Catholic Church, with the entire congregation, and Father Hawkins himself, becoming full members of the Catholic Church.

After much agonizing, the entire parish voted to petition Catholic Bishop Joseph P. Delaney about such a possibility in June 1991. The congregation and Father Hawkins were received [/quote]
I assume the vicar was ordained a Catholic priest?

[cmotherofpirl]

Yep.
I just answered this question yesterday in the apologetic section