The Old Testament

[Quietfire]

Does the Old Testament prove that God is 'male'. Not in the same sense as we humans are, but showing more toward specific male trait as opposed to a woman or both?
Clearly Jesus, in the NT, would say "Our Father", "My Father", in a male sense. But I am specifically speaking of the OT. Proving that Our Father in Heaven is in fact....Our Father in Heaven, and not some 'woman in heaven' or 'some combo in heaven'.

I am faced with someone who clearly sees God as not being male, but both male and female with the emphasis on the Female. In other words, when they call on their 'god' they are referring to their 'god' as a 'she'. Also claiming that there is not three persons but seven spirits, and in doing so, denying the Holy Trinity. I dare not ponder what they think of Christ, fearing they deny him completely.

Obviously this is New Age thinking with some serious pagan influence.

I need info on all this and I am somewhat inept at it. So I am asking for apologetical assistance.


Pax

Edited November 8, 2004 by Quietfire

[i7nvd]

Now, I'm gonna state what I think is the correct teaching on this, but if someone contradicts what I say, listen to them! I'm still learning this type of stuff, too. I haven't gotten good at memorizing scripture yet, so I don't have anything to really back this up.

As far as I understand, you MIGHT get something in OT that says that God is male, but your friend still has a point (definitely not the point about the seven spirits. That's just crazy-talk!) It's true that I (and the Catholic Church) refers to God as Father, and Him, etc., but it's not entirely accurate. God is love. That's all God is made up of. Love, love, love. God is timeless, eternal love. I think this puts Him above gender. We refer to God as male, just through tradition. 2000 years ago, males were dominant. There's a lot of things in the Bible that make feminists cringe and say the Church is sexist, when in reality, it was just how they spoke. As far as I understand, God is the same thing. It's hard to talk about someone without a gender, and with males being dominant, and God being the dominant being of the universe, I think it was just natural that the called Him "Him" 2000 years ago. So your friend as a point in saying that God is not necessarily male, but they stray when they say He's both. He's more accurately, if I'm right, neither.

Anyone wanna correct me?

[cmotherofpirl]

God encompasses both male and female traits, but Jesus identifies Him as Father, and in fact calls Him Abba [daddy].

[Quietfire]

and I totally agree with you on that point.
That is why I stated that he isnt 'male' in the human sense.
You just phrased it much better than me.

I've hit on like, three points here.
First one is done. Unless someone can dumb it down for me better.
But as far as God being specifically a woman?
And the fact that God is 7 spirits and not 3 persons in one divine nature?

Yeah, crazy talk but still need info.


Pax.

[cmotherofpirl]

Being specifically a woman would be limiting God to a specific set of [typical] gender traits. Being just a man woul;d be the same problem. God is all encompassing. God is not limited by human standards or characteristics.

If God is a woman how could Jesus call him Daddy? That would mean Jesus was very confused and certainly not God.

Nowhere does the bible say God is 7 spirits.

Edited November 8, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[phatcatholic]

this article doesn't actually give very many OT verses, but it is an excellent explanation for why we call God "Father" instead of "Mother":

--God or Goddess? Our Heavenly Father Knows Best (in [url="http://www.cuf.org/nonmemb/godgoddess.pdf"][b]pdf[/b][/url] or [url="http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:_lkn7GB4llsJ:www.cuf.org/nonmemb/godgoddess.pdf+Goddess+our+best&hl=en"][b]html[/b][/url] format)

i'll try to find some more later......

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Quietfire]

Yeah, I know that youre right.

In The Apocalypse of St. John (yes, we've touched on this before) John addresses the 7 Churches in Asia (Rev 1:4) in reference to the 7 spirits before God.

And if I am not mistaken, there is a reference in Isaias to God having 7 eyes or God having 7 spirits or something to that effect. (dont quote me on that) I have to check. I am not so good at quoting Scripture.

Pax.

Edited November 8, 2004 by Quietfire

[phatcatholic]

something else to point out: the words "male" and "masculine" are not interchangable. the word "male" describes the nature o fa person, the word "masculine" describes how a person is conceptualized in relation to other persons. so, since God is a Spirit, he is neither "male" nor "female" BUT he is "masculine" --as in, he takes on a masculinity in relation to us, so that we may understand certain theological truths about him. this is all outlined in the article i posted

Edited November 8, 2004 by phatcatholic

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Nov 8 2004, 11:49 AM'] Yeah, I know that youre right.

In The Apocalypse of St. John (yes, we've touched on this before) John addresses the 7 Churches in Asia (Rev 1:4) in reference to the 7 spirits before God.

And if I am not mistaken, there is a reference in Isaias to God having 7 eyes or something to that effect. (dont quote me on that) I have to check. I am not so good at quoting Scripture.

Pax. [/quote]
the number seven is commonly seen as a symbol for totallity, completeness, wholeness. so, the 7 churches represent the entire Church. 7 eyes would represent God's ability to see all things past, present, and future. at any rate, symbolism and metaphor is not the best way to prove theological truths b/c they can vary in meaning. so, it would take much more than verses like this to prove that God is seven actual spirits.