Mickey's_Girl Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Okay...I've been reading/hearing Catholics talk about what "pro-life" means for months now. For non-Catholics, it almost exclusively means anti-abortion (as in, "pro-choice/pro-life"). So where I (former Protestant that I am) would say "Bush is pro-life", other people (somehow, they're always of the other political persuasion, and I am NOT talking about people on this board--I'm talking about people I've met) immediately say "No he's not, because of his stance on the death penalty." So what I want to know (and please, no document dumping, posturing, or pointing figures--if I wanted that, I'd go to the debate thread): on how many issues must you be pro-life before you get to wear the label? Here are the issues I can think of (feel free to add if I've forgotten any): 1. Euthanasia/assisted suicide 2. Abortion 3. Embryonic stem cell research 4. Death penalty On 1-3 I'm absolutely with the church. No questions there, as far as I know. Regarding #4: I've read the CCC, the Holy Father's statements, etc., and (as others have said) I feel that an honest Catholic can see both arguments about it (perhaps you think I'm not converted enough yet, and I'm sure that's true--I'm not even confirmed yet, so please--all prayers are appreciated). My current thoughts on it are that the death penalty should be available for use against people like serial killers and mass murderers and crimes that are particularly heinous. What do you think? MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='Nov 6 2004, 03:56 PM'] Regarding #4: I've read the CCC, the Holy Father's statements, etc., and (as others have said) I feel that an honest Catholic can see both arguments about it (perhaps you think I'm not converted enough yet, and I'm sure that's true--I'm not even confirmed yet, so please--all prayers are appreciated). My current thoughts on it are that the death penalty should be available for use against people like serial killers and mass murderers and crimes that are particularly heinous. [/quote] In my opinion, the death penalty is only neccesary in cases where the criminal cannot be contained (which is pretty much what the Pope says). In the United States, criminals can be contained 99 percent of the time, so there really isn't any need for the DP. Only when the death penalty is the only way to prevent more deaths, is it that I feel that it is acceptable to end life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey's_Girl Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 I appreciate the distinction, Crusader1234. That's kind of where I'm going with the serial killer/mass murderer thing: what if they escaped? They're far more likely to kill again than the average killer (one would think). Good stuff to think about. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 death penalty.. I dont know.. would it be better to let them live and pray they come to God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='Nov 6 2004, 04:18 PM'] I appreciate the distinction, Crusader1234. That's kind of where I'm going with the serial killer/mass murderer thing: what if they escaped? They're far more likely to kill again than the average killer (one would think). Good stuff to think about. MG [/quote] The chances that the United States or Canada could not contain a criminal are very very very small. With a serial killer, the chance really doesn't exist as they are put in very high security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote name='Tony' date='Nov 6 2004, 04:22 PM'] death penalty.. I dont know.. would it be better to let them live and pray they come to God? [/quote] Maybe if faced with death, they would come to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Nov 6 2004, 05:31 PM'] The chances that the United States or Canada could not contain a criminal are very very very small. With a serial killer, the chance really doesn't exist as they are put in very high security. [/quote] Ted Bundy escaped from prison. Twice, I believe. The problem with serial killers is that they are very rarely caught in the act. They are sneaky guys. In Bundy's case, he was sneaky enough to escape from jail and kill again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 You can be pro-life [birth to natural death] and still be for the death penalty. Abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and euthanasia are all forms of murder. A punishment legally carried out by the state is not murder. Some people try to equate the death penalty with these other issues, but the Church disagrees with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='Nov 6 2004, 04:18 PM'] I appreciate the distinction, Crusader1234. That's kind of where I'm going with the serial killer/mass murderer thing: what if they escaped? They're far more likely to kill again than the average killer (one would think). Good stuff to think about. MG [/quote] The question is, what if they escape. But, at least here in the US, we have break outs so rarly, that it is really a "what if." The chances are nearly zero, we can easily *My voice* keep them under control without use of the DP. I think there is only one level of "pro-life" and that is being agaisnt all things that end life unjustly *imporperly used DP, unjust war, abortion, embronic reaseach, etc.* *I* don't think Bush is pro life, I think he is anti abortion, and to me, that isn't pro life, thus I say he is not prolife, only anti abortion. He also allowed for federal funds to embroinc stem cell research, thus calling him pro life with that limited scope is also flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote name='Luthien' date='Nov 6 2004, 04:33 PM'] Maybe if faced with death, they would come to God. [/quote] There was a case of this in Texas. A woman, I forget her name, was senticed to death and in prision repented the murder she commited and converted to Christianity. People tried to get her sentice converted to life without paorle (sp?) because of this. However, she was to be killed in the middle of the court hearings, they asked then Gov Bush to grant a stay of execuation, thereby allowing her to get all the hearings and such, Bush refused and she was executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 the way I understood it, any type of killing was sin except if it was to defend yourself (as in threatened or a soldier at war) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Nov 6 2004, 07:51 PM'] I think there is only one level of "pro-life" and that is being agaisnt all things that end life unjustly *imporperly used DP, unjust war, abortion, embronic reaseach, etc.* *I* don't think Bush is pro life, I think he is anti abortion, and to me, that isn't pro life, thus I say he is not prolife, only anti abortion. He also allowed for federal funds to embroinc stem cell research, thus calling him pro life with that limited scope is also flawed. [/quote] The Church disagrees with you there. If you think that it's all the same, then you need to put aside what you think and be more concerned about what God and His Church think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 6 2004, 06:43 PM'] You can be pro-life [birth to natural death] and still be for the death penalty. [/quote] Well, yes and no. The death penalty IS unjust murder if it isn't absolutely neccesary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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