Once Saved, Always Saved?

[notbilln]

The concept of being assured a place oin heaven while still on earth, is so foriegn to me I can't comprehend it.

If I know I'm saved, do I still have to go to church? Can't I just live my life as I will, cause I Swore that I loved christ a year ago? Do I still have free will, If my eternal fate has alreadly been decided?

I've always belived that, our free will was given to us so that we might freely choose christ. Not just once, but millions of times again and again. If sin is choosing something other than God, and we are still capabe of sinning through out our lives then inorder to believe that we are always saved, we must belive that our one decision for christ is more important than all of the times we choose to sin. Its as if God would save us AGAINST our own will. Now thats just silly.

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

Now Trooper, I don't know why you're calling yourself ex-pentecostal. I see Faithland as a pentecostal church. Just because they're not an AOG doesn't mean they're not pentecostal. The term pentecostal covers more than just AOG, and in my opinion, your church has the characteristics of a pentecostal church. Pentecostal in itself is not a denomination, it is a word that describes various denoms that are pentecostal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've always thought.

our church has pentecostal principles, yet we are simply called Christian. Showing the intentions of our church outside of religion and more so a lifestyle. We are under the ACC umbrella and work with Ps. Brian Houston yet we are simple FCC. So that is why i call myelf ex-pentecostal, i remember as a pentecostal believing that woman must always cover their heads to pray and not wear any sorts of jewlrey and make up. also believing that certain people were not allowed to go to church as they were not right enough to enter God's House.

Pentecostal is every much a denomination! if it wasn't for pentecostals I would not be Christian! Yet according to each culture, the Pentecostal ideals changed. The culture I reigned from was very strict!

Edited October 11, 2003 by Trooper4DaHolyG

[jasJis]

Troop,

That's what frustrates me on the YA board when I offered to help people justify their faith. Notice nobody was able or willing to do it. It was always "I just know because of my spiritual relationship with God". If the Holy Spirit helped you know God in the Pentecostal Church, but you left because you disagreed with some things, was the HS teaching you error?

If you learn to justify your faith with logic and reason and prayer when using Scripture and an open mind to honest History and reasonableness, you won't prove Faith, but you will discover what is most reasonable in the big picture of the Reality of God, and the Truth that Christians share becomes clear. When you see the Truth, you then see that some denominations have more of it.

I will admit, sometimes it seems Catholics here seem to act like we have all the Truth (edit to clarify "sole ownership of Truth") , but when we've found God and have such a powerful and personal relationship with Him, we want you to have it also. You find more thant the average Catholic here at phatmass. You also find Catholics who have embraced a powerful and intimate relationship with Jesus and have learned God comes to us through Scripture, the Church, Sacraments, as well as privately in our hearts. These life experiences have led us back to the Holy Spirit that manifests itself in the Catholic Church. Just read some of the testimonials.

For us to deny and refuse any grace of God's, is to deny air for our lungs. We can't say "we've got enough to survive" we desire deep breaths to unable us to run, leap, sing, and dance. God's grace is like air. It's abundant and overflowing. It's more than the amount neccesary to live.

We can't convert you, but we can be tools of God's grace that will grow you into a more leaping and joyful Christian. Open your spiritual lungs, bro.

Edited October 11, 2003 by jasJis

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

Troop,

That's what frustrates me on the YA board when I offered to help people justify their faith.  Notice nobody was able or willing to do it.  It was always "I just know because of my spiritual relationship with God".  If the Holy Spirit helped you know God in the Pentecostal Church, but you left because you disagreed with some things, was the HS teaching you error?

If you learn to justify your faith with logic and reason and prayer when using Scripture and an open mind to honest History and reasonableness, you won't prove Faith, but you will discover what is most reasonable in the big picture of the Reality of God, and the Truth that Christians share becomes clear.  When you see the Truth, you then see that some denominations have more of it.

I will admit, sometimes it seems Catholics here seem to act like we have all the Truth (edit to clarify "sole ownership of Truth")  , but when we've found God and have such a powerful and personal relationship with Him, we want you to have it also.  You find more thant the average Catholic here at phatmass.  You also find Catholics who have embraced a powerful and intimate relationship with Jesus and have learned God comes to us through Scripture, the Church, Sacraments, as well as privately in our hearts.  These life experiences have led us back to the Holy Spirit that manifests itself in the Catholic Church.  Just read some of the testimonials. 

For us to deny and refuse any grace of God's, is to deny air for our lungs.  We can't say "we've got enough to survive"  we desire deep breaths to unable us to run, leap, sing, and dance.  God's grace is like air.  It's abundant and overflowing.  It's more than the amount neccesary to live.

We can't convert you, but we can be tools of God's grace that will grow you into a more leaping and joyful Christian.  Open your spiritual lungs, bro.

What I need was a Holy Spirit empowered place to freely worship, form, build and constantly renew a relationship with GOD! I got that from my church!

I left the Pentecostal Church I once was at that was very loosely pentecostal, it was Indian Petecostal which might as well be a whole new sect. It had strict rulings that i left because it restricted me and restricted others from forming a relationship with GOD!

Don't get me wrong I love Pentecostal Churches! Its were I found the truth, and were I will never turn back. But what my pentecostal church was like has a lot of similar traits to the corrupted churches.

The Catholic Church I went to was corrupt, I have only see this by meeting beautiful Catholics. Hey i don't totally agree with you guys, and I don't see you as an authortive head although you do see yourselves that way. But the Catholic Church I was at told me that i could not be non-catholic and Christian and that if I tried to pray to Jesus he would reject my prayers because I disprespect his mother! I was also taught that Mary must be given more praise than Jesus because she is the Queen of Heaven! and many other false things....

Basically my church enables me to have a relationship with JC and for it to flourish by using the resources of the CHURCH! this is why i attend and why I believe what I believe. The Holy Spirit is open to everyone and he is the key to finding the truth, facts and History can be bait, but the Holy Spirit is your fishing rod, in fact he is the whole boat! hahahaha

[Anna]

Or was the Holy Spirit directing the Pentecostal Church in error????? I'm sure they claim to be led by the Holy Spirit also...

What I need was a Holy Spirit empowered place to freely worship, form, build and constantly renew a relationship with GOD!

This is precisely why Christ instituted the Sacraments, commissioned a priesthood to administer them to the flock, and established a leader to see that the flock was tended.

I left the Pentecostal Church I once was at that was very loosely pentecostal...It had strict rulings that i left because it restricted me and restricted others from forming a relationship with GOD!

So, if it restricted people from having a relationship from God, it could not have been guided by the Holy Spirit, Who is God.

Don't get me wrong I love Pentecostal Churches! Its were I found the truth, and were I will never turn back.

When you find the Fullness of Truth, you'll never want to leave.

I don't see you as an authortive head although you do see yourselves that way.

We do not see ourselves as "authoritative heads" of anything. The pope is the authoritative head of the Catholic Church. His commission to Feed Christ's Sheep, and hold the Keys of the Kingdom came directly from Christ. We are just the "sheep." We are fed by the Sacraments and the Scriptures. And we are not kept in the dark about the history of our Church, which began with Christ Himself.

The Catholic Church I went to was corrupt...the Catholic Church I was at told me that i could not be non-catholic and Christian and that if I tried to pray to Jesus he would reject my prayers because I disprespect his mother! I was also taught that Mary must be given more praise than Jesus because she is the Queen of Heaven! and many other false things....

I've heard this said even of people who left my own parish and who attended Catholic school with me! Yet this was never taught, in our parish, in our school, nor by the Church. The doctrines we believe in are fully described, in simple layman's terms in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

In the case of these former Catholics who I know, they never really bothered to LEARN what the Catholic Church taught. They observed and formed their own opinions, like seed that fell on hard ground. When winds came up that blew lies about their Church's teachings, they blew away with that wind...the swallowed up the lies and false accusations hook, line, and sinker...

Christ's One True Church will never suffer total corruption, as He Himself promised St. Peter, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Though, He never said they wouldn't try!)

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church (available right here on PhatMass!) there is a whole section on Mary, and no where will you find that we are give her worship. And putting her above Jesus would truly be idolatry. The Church teaches that Mary was inDouche fully human, while her Divine Son, Jesus Christ, was True God and True Man, possessing both a human nature, and a Divine Nature. Common sense would tell you that Jesus is over Mary. Also, look at how we list the Holy Family, whenever we name them: Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.

In ordinary language, one generally names the father and mother first, followed by the child. This is the order of respect afforded them, due to their role and age. The eldest is first, youngest last. Not so with the Holy Family, the Child is First! Followed by His Holy Mother, and Foster Father, St. Joseph.

The Holy Spirit is open to everyone and he is the key to finding the truth, facts and History can be bait, but the Holy Spirit is your fishing rod, in fact he is the whole boat! hahahaha

Well, I can see that you are on a fishing expedition, fishing for the Truth. I could point you to an excellent fishing spot, the Pillar of Truth, as described by Scripture, if only you were open to it...

Pax Christi. <><

[jasJis]

What I need was a Holy Spirit empowered place to freely worship, form, build and constantly renew a relationship with GOD! I got that from my church!

I left the Pentecostal Church I once was at that was very loosely pentecostal, it was Indian Petecostal which might as well be a whole new sect. It had strict rulings that i left because it restricted me and restricted others from forming a relationship with GOD!

Don't get me wrong I love Pentecostal Churches! Its were I found the truth, and were I will never turn back. But what my pentecostal church was like has a lot of similar traits to the corrupted churches.

The Catholic Church I went to was corrupt, I have only see this by meeting beautiful Catholics. Hey i don't totally agree with you guys, and I don't see you as an authortive head although you do see yourselves that way. But the Catholic Church I was at told me that i could not be non-catholic and Christian and that if I tried to pray to Jesus he would reject my prayers because I disprespect his mother! I was also taught that Mary must be given more praise than Jesus because she is the Queen of Heaven! and many other false things....

Basically my church enables me to have a relationship with JC and for it to flourish by using the resources of the CHURCH! this is why i attend and why I believe what I believe. The Holy Spirit is open to everyone and he is the key to finding the truth, facts and History can be bait, but the Holy Spirit is your fishing rod, in fact he is the whole boat! hahahaha

Ah, were finally getting to know each other and find some common ground. I won't add to Anna's comment about misconceptions of Catholics in the Catholic Church. She is right. I personally have seen (and done) the same thing. I went to 12 years of Catholic School and myself, and others, were able to remain ignorant. Why? Because Grace is a gift that is given, not forced. We refused to open and recieve them.

Basically my church enables me to have a relationship with JC and for it to flourish by using the resources of the CHURCH! this is why i attend and why I believe what I believe. The Holy Spirit is open to everyone and he is the key to finding the truth, facts and History can be bait, but the Holy Spirit is your fishing rod, in fact he is the whole boat! hahahaha

That part of your post is key and stunning. All Christians should have that attitude if they are going to embrace the resources of the CHURCH. Those resources are the Graces if Truth. If a Christian doesn't recognize that, then they are being ignorant (like I was) of Graces being offered. I embraced the resources of the Church and am Catholic because of non-Catholic Christian friends that challenged me with that lesson. At the root of it was to finally want to be right with Jesus. The solution was to be open to God's graces that would help me, like they helped my non-C Christian friends, and seek additional help from the Church.

It shouldn't be an arguement about whos right or whos wrong in Denominations, but explanation about more Graces found in the Denomination. No matter what happened in my life, I always knew in my soul God loves me and knew me. As I learned more about that Love, I wanted and needed it as desperately as air. More of that air then one could ever breathe is given by God through the Catholic Church. Tons of it are given in other Christian Churches too. I'm weak and needy. I'm going with the over abundance....