Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Katholikos]

ok Mate, lets get a couple of things straight. i never replaced truth for fiction, if I did you are calling me a fool, and a Fool I am not.

Trooper, please allow me to clear up an apparent misunderstanding. I said Catholicism is true and Protestantism is false. The Church was built upon the Apostles and Prophets -- before the New Testament was written (Ephesians 2:19-20). Protestantism rejects the Church founded by Christ and accepts only part of the Bible that originated in the bosom of the Church. The Bible didn't exist as we know it until the Church was nearly 400 years old. The early Christians -- thousands of whom were martyred for the Faith -- died without reading the New Testament, because it didn't yet exist. The Church is the work of Christ; the Bible is the work of the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Is it logical to accept the Bible as true, and to reject as false the very Church that wrote the New Testament and formed the Bible? The answer is NO. If one is false, so is the other. If one is true, so is the other.

I simply trimmed truth and a whole load of other carp, to just truth. I took away the traditions that held me back from enjoying a personal relationship with God my Saviour. There is a direct route, why should I detour.

I simply call myself a Christian, because that is all I am and Christ is who I am belong to.

People usually leave the Church for one of two reasons: either they do not know what the Church teaches and why, and therefore are susceptible to the false claims of Protestantism, or they refuse to follow the moral teachings of the Church and seek justification for their behavior elsewhere.

You say Salvation Can Be Lost by One Mortal Sin

so there is no repentance, or wait is this were your Purgatory comes in?

Yes, salvation can be lost by one mortal sin. If a person commits a mortal sin and dies before repenting, his soul will go directly to hell. The wages of sin is death (Rm 6:23). Repenting of sin is always a possibility, until the moment of death. Purgatory is for the purification of the temporal punishment due to mortal (deadly) and venial (small) sins which have already been repented of and forgiven, and for the cleansing of any unrepented venial sins which have not been expiated. It has nothing to do with unrepented mortal sins.

Jude 3, please give me some of that, because Jude 3 ain't in my bible.

If you were reffering to Jude verse 3 then you are reffering to false teachers, once again there is a closed minded person on here. Or in other words a Protestant Hater, you may say you love us as Christians, but you hate us with your mind and mouth....

"Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

The point was, the faith was "once for all delivered to the saints." The doctrines of Christ had been taught to the Church by the Apostles before the letter of Jude was written. There is no need to keep inventing new doctrines as Protestants do.

I will pray for you and ask God to heal you of the anger and ignorance that caused you to write the ugly and untrue accusations contained in this paragraph.

Man-Made doctrines is half of your own religion my friend. Especially if you base your church on Peter rather than Jesus.

It's like this, Trooper. Jesus founded the Church. He taught the Apostles for 3 years. He told them to teach "all that I have commanded you." Not some of it, but all of it. The Apostles were the first leaders of the Church and its faithful teachers. They appointed bishops to succeed them when they moved on or died. The bishops of the Catholic Church today can trace their ordination back in an unbroken line to the Apostles. For example, St. John the Apostle taught the Church for about 65 years before he wrote the Gospel of John. The Church's doctrines come straight from Christ, who was God, through the Apostles and their successors. Timothy and Titus were bishops.

The OSAS you describe I do not agree with!

Luther had his version, Calvin had yet another version, other Protestants have put their own spin in it, and you have yours. Some deny it altogether. As I said, Protestantism is a do-it-yourself religion.

But it isn't -- and it cannot possibly be -- true. Not if 2 + 2 = 4. Take a course in logic.

Jesus said the powers of death would not prevail against His Church, and endowed it with both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. You call Sacred Tradition carp and prefer your own doctrines, disregarding St. Paul's admonition to "stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" 2 Thess 2:15.

Have you told St. Paul that you think the Sacred Traditions he wrote about are just so much carp?

Yes, you have, though you may not acknowledge it or be aware of it.

Peace be with you, Likos

[littleflower+JMJ]

bump

[Freaky Chik]

If you'd like to know what the AOG church teaches on this issue...

then goooo...

HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :)

[ironmonk]

If you'd like to know what the AOG church teaches on this issue...

then goooo...

HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :)

Not really concerned with the doctrines of man...

http://ag.org/top/about/about.cfm

Our History

The Assemblies of God has its roots in a religious revival that began in the late 1800s. In 1914 both preachers and laymen gathered from 20 states and several foreign countries for a "general council" in Hot Springs, Arkansas.

We are concerned with the teachings of Christ and His Apostles... 33 AD.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=11...%20catholic&ct=

Roman Catholicism

Encyclopædia Britannica Article

Christian church characterized by its uniform, highly developed doctrinal and organizational structure that traces its history to the Apostles of Jesus Christ in the 1st century AD.

God Bless, Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

I am not going to adress your post Katholikos, too much hate and judging that is crowding anything of reason you have to say....

Anna, YOU ARE RIGHT! I never really knew Catholicism! that is very true! half the reason why I changed, also because of my parents! there were too many things crowing what I hungered to know. It seemed when I started going to other churches Baptist and Pentecostal I was being filled with what I needed.

I am not saying Catholicism is not fullfilling, I am saying it was not fulfilling enough for me! That also could have been by the Church that was representing your name or my immaturity! who knows, and please don't be the one to judge!

Christianity is one big party for me! I will rejoice in all my sorrows, failures and in all my strengths and successes! When I have God up there who loves me so much, he would send his Son to die for me, what is not to celebrate? GOD ROX!

If you mean by predestination, that God already knows where we'll spend eternity, I believe He does.

But we freely choose to go there. He doesn't set our path and our final destination, He just knows which way we'll chose.

I don't think that is scriptural, I think it's what you believe! and hey I am cool with that! But i don't believe in that, i believe God will always give us the oportunity to get back on track, otherwise how can he be a Just God?

By what Divine Authority did you decide that Sacred Traditions handed down from the Apostles are "carp," and that they can be cast aside in disgust?

The Apostles didn't "invent" them, they were taught by Jesus.

Everything the Church holds Sacred was passed down from the Apostles, whether in writing, or orally.

"But men will come and call evil good, and good evil..."

When I decided to be a Child of God! and help build a Kingdom Generation, I decided to scrap traditional concepts! Many of them were blocking me from God and the community! When tradition become bad tradition I decided to do as the scripture says and rid so it halts from hindering me from GOD!

oh and yes be vary of what I say! especially if you don't understand it may be bring more evil than God! I highly doubt it, but pray about! Just consider it but do not take it as the whole truth! ok?

btw, would some mind posting the other 6 books my bible misses?

Cmother of Pirl! I do not worship a Book! You are just being silly and you know it! I worship Jesus, who is the WORD!

[nippy316]

I am not saying Catholicism is not fullfilling, I am saying it was not fulfilling enough for me!

Wow...you find partial truth more fulfilling than whole and complete truth?

Oh, my bad...I wouldn't want to "judge" you or anything.

God bless...

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

do i sence some sarcasm?

i am use to you guys now when i first came here, i would have went nuts @ what u said! now i am to confident in myself to do that! :D

[Katholikos]

If you'd like to know what the AOG church teaches on this issue...

then goooo...

HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :)

Freaky,

The AOG is just barely 100 years old, founded by ordinary men in the United States of America in 1914. These men read the Bible, an English translation from the Greek -- one of dozens of existing translations, all of them different -- and decided what they would believe and teach as the "pure Word of God." They are teaching the word of man as the Word of God, acting as if the (translated) Bible Alone (Sola Scriptura) is all there is to Christianity!

Why anyone would be interested in the opinion of the AOG or any other Bible-based church is mystifying, when the 2,000-year-old Catholic Church upon which the New Testament is based is right here, right now, and I can belong to it as Christ intended all His followers should. I believe the doctrines of Christ as taught by and through the Apostles rather than the opinions of man.

Christ didn't leave us a book, He left us a Church. The Church produced the book.

Peace be with you. Likos

[Dave]

I am not going to adress your post Katholikos, too much hate and judging that is crowding anything of reason you have to say....

What hate? Likos just told you the truth. It may not have been easy for you to hear, but it's still the truth. That statement that you made which I just quoted, on the other hand, is highly judgmental and hateful. How can you claim to know Likos' heart? Could it be that you find it impossible to refute what he said and thus must resort to personal attacks? Hmmmmm?

Anna, YOU ARE RIGHT! I never really knew Catholicism! that is very true! half the reason why I changed, also because of my parents! there were too many things crowing what I hungered to know. It seemed when I started going to other churches Baptist and Pentecostal I was being filled with what I needed.

I am not saying Catholicism is not fullfilling, I am saying it was not fulfilling enough for me! That also could have been by the Church that was representing your name or my immaturity! who knows, and please don't be the one to judge!

So in other words, you wanted things on your own terms and not God's terms. You were more concerned about yourself and what was more fulfilling for you rather than what was true.

When I decided to be a Child of God! and help build a Kingdom Generation, I decided to scrap traditional concepts! Many of them were blocking me from God and the community! When tradition become bad tradition I decided to do as the scripture says and rid so it halts from hindering me from GOD!

Sacred Tradition doesn't block anyone from God. Nothing bad about it in the least! Maybe you need to re-examine these traditional concepts.

btw, would some mind posting the other 6 books my bible misses?

In no particular order, they are Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees. It's 7 books, not 6. Your Bible also lacks parts of the books of Daniel and Esther.

Cmother of Pirl! I do not worship a Book! You are just being silly and you know it! I worship Jesus, who is the WORD!

If you think the Bible alone is all you need and think you can interpret it for yourself without the guidance of the Church, then whether or not you realize it, you DO worship the Bible.

[Freaky Chik]

WHY ON EARTH DID I BOTHER EVEN POSTING? SEE, THAT IS WHY WE DON'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. YOU WRITE A POST ASKING WHAT THE PROTESTANTS BELIEVED.... I WENT OUT OF MY WAY TO GET SOMETHING THAT A DENOMINATION BELIEVES FOR YOU TO SEE... I WAS NOT TRYING TO GET YOU GUYS TO TAKE THEIR VIEWPOINT... I WAS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION TO WHAT THE ORIGINAL TOPIC WAS... YOU WANTED TO KNOW WHAT PROTESTANTS BELIEVE, SO I WAS GIVING THAT TO YOU... BUT THEN YOU JUST THROW IT IN MY FACE STATING THAT YOU WON'T EVEN LISTEN COS IT'S MAN-MADE..... AND YOU STILL WONDER WHY WE NEVER ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS!! COS YOU DON'T WANT AN ANSWER!!

AND I WASNT' SHOUTING, I AM WRITING IN CAPS AND BOLD TO HIGHLIGHT MY POINT.

[jasJis]

I agree with Freaky Chik. The AOG can be discussed, not dismissed. It is Christian so it has Truths that Catholics share.

If we are honest about Truth, then Catholics have to admit, Protestants share Truth. If Catholics want Freaky to be open to more Truth, it would be best to build on a foundation of Truth that AOG shares with us. Truth does not contradict itself, so don't contradict all of AOG teachings because they're Protestant. That's just as ignorant as Protestants saying Catholics aren't Christians. Us Catholics are doing the same thing.

[Freaky Chik]

thanks Jasjis, I like you You're a real man :)

[Katholikos]

Now that's the Likos I remember!

Nippy, it's good to be remembered! Thanks! Glad you're still here, defending the Faith!

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos

[Joolye]

When a Catholic reads the bible he believes every verse could possibly be applied to him at any given moment.

When a Protestant reads the bible he believes that all the good verses apply to him (because he has Faith) and all the bad verses apply to the unbeliever.

Is this a fair distinction?

I know this was put up a few days ago, but I only just read it and I don't think anyone has addressed it.

No it is not a fair distinction. I have been reading Jeremiah recently, and this verse spoke to me. JER 13:20 "Lift up your eyes and see those who are coming from the north. Where is the flock that was entrusted to you, the sheep of which you boasted?" It is basically saying that 'you haven't looked after your flock', now that's a bad thing, yet I could apply it to myself.

Ex-Catholic, Ex-Pentecostal, FULL FAITHLANDER! it's like disneyland, cept the whole thing is run by God and it rox so much harder!

Now Trooper, I don't know why you're calling yourself ex-pentecostal. I see Faithland as a pentecostal church. Just because they're not an AOG doesn't mean they're not pentecostal. The term pentecostal covers more than just AOG, and in my opinion, your church has the characteristics of a pentecostal church. Pentecostal in itself is not a denomination, it is a word that describes various denoms that are pentecostal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've always thought.

[Katholikos]

Now Trooper, I don't know why you're calling yourself ex-pentecostal. I see Faithland as a pentecostal church. Just because they're not an AOG doesn't mean they're not pentecostal. The term pentecostal covers more than just AOG, and in my opinion, your church has the characteristics of a pentecostal church. Pentecostal in itself is not a denomination, it is a word that describes various denoms that are pentecostal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've always thought.

The Pentecostal denomination was founded in Topeka, Kansas, by Charles F. Parham, a Methodist minister in the Holiness tradition. He opened a small school in late 1900 for students who prayed earnestly for the "baptism of the Holy Spirit." On January 1, 1901, Agnes Ozman began "speaking in tongues." Others students followed Ozman's example, and soon the whole school, including Parham, could "speak in tongues."

There are many divisions of Pentecostals, all of them born in the 20th century in the U.S. One was the AOG which started in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas at a meeting of several ministers.

The word designates both a denomination and a style of worship. There are "pentecostal" Catholics, Episcopalians, and others, for example.

All Protestant denominations are man-made, based on yet another interpretation of the same 66-book Bible, founded by men like Martin Luther, or John Wesley, or Charles Parham, or John Smyth, and so on and on and on -- 33,820 denominations and counting (World Christian Encyclopedia, 2001).

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, who was God, in 33 A.D., in Jerusalem.

Which Church do you think God wants us to belong to?

Katholikos