Once Saved, Always Saved?

[ReformationNow]

Hold on...I'm thinking, I'm thinking...I've spent so much time memorizing verses, I should know these off top my head.

Anyway, my Bible is out in the car, and I'm not fully dressed, it's cold, so I'm gonna paraphrase some verses from memory. Although I don't know the exact verses. But I think it's in John 6. And Christ is speaking, saying "No man can come to me unless the Father draws him." And in another verse we see "I will keep him whom the Father gives me, and will raise him up at the last day." I know there's more, but I'll have to wait until I'm dressed, and it's not so cold, and the sunshine is out to go get my Bible.

[ReformationNow]

Hey Likos! Good to see you again! By the way, I just answered I didn't see this earlier.

[Joolye]

You see, Catholics believe that we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

Yet Protestants seem to think that unless we claim to be saved, we do not believe in Jesus Christ.

We're simply hesitant to proclaim our own judgement.  That is for God to proclaim, after we are judged.

It isn't that we don't have Faith in God, it's that we don't have faith in a fallen human nature.  Even the best human beings fall into sin.  So, we won't claim to be saved, as a general rule.

We just say "we're working on it!"   

Pax Christi. <><

So does that mean you have no assurance of your salvation?

Since the Protestants offered no answer to your Q (why am I not surprised?), here's the scoop.

I think the reason that 'the Protestants' offered no answer to the question is because most of the protestants on this forum don't believe Once saved always saved. I don't.

One argument I heard was using the verse Rom 10:9 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Their argument is that this verse says that if you believe at some stage in your life, you will be saved regardless of whether you turn away later. This argument is weak in my opinion. The verb 'believe' is in the present tense, therefore, you must be currently believing in order to be saved. It doesn't say that 'if you believe at one point in your life you will be saved'. It says believe in the present tense, not past tense.

So there you go. I presented an argument for OSAS, then argued against it, as I don't believe in OSAS.

[skuba steve]

We don't believe that you can't lose your salvation.

You get so defensive and hurt when you think we are speaking lies about your religion. Please refrain from hypocracy.

Rom 5:14 But from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, death ruled over all human beings, even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam did when he disobeyed God's command. Adam was a figure of the one who was to come.

Rom 5:15 But the two are not the same, because God's free gift is not like Adam's sin. It is true that many people died because of the sin of that one man. But God's grace is much greater, and so is his free gift to so many people through the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ. Rom 5:16 And there is a difference between God's gift and the sin of one man. After the one sin, came the judgment of "Guilty"; but after so many sins, comes the undeserved gift of "Not guilty!"

Rom 8:1 There is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus.

Please note the term "Free Gift"

Now,

You see, Catholics believe that we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

Now tell me this:

Why would you work for something that's available for free?

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

Hebrews 10:

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I like what I believe in alot better, makes sense, assures my salvation so i don't have to worry about me and I can get on with my mission....

Edited October 7, 2003 by Trooper4DaHolyG

[dUSt]

Now tell me this:

Why would you work for something that's available for free?

Why did Paul work for it?

When we work for something, we are showing God that we want it. Sure, it's free, but only those who desire it will receive it.

[Dave]

Hebrews 10:

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I like what I believe in alot better, makes sense, assures my salvation so i don't have to worry about me and I can get on with my mission....

That passage doesn't say we can't fall away and become unsaved. The last verse says we can!

Edited October 7, 2003 by Dave

[dUSt]

We don't believe that you can't lose your salvation.

You get so defensive and hurt when you think we are speaking lies about your religion. Please refrain from hypocracy.

Skuba,

Some Protestants do believe that you can't lose your salvation. I don't think anyone tried to misrepresent what you believe--if you don't believe in "once saved always saved" then this post doesn't apply to you.

I think the hypocrisy label would be valid if someone said "ALL Protestants believe in OSAS".

God bless.

[Trooper4DaHolyG]

it reinforces the one sacrifice and our amesome contract with the Holy Spirit.

It assures my salvation, I know the Holy Spirits Mercy and God's Grace! The last verse kind of shows you that there are righteous people. The whole thing spoke of sacrifices not beeing need, and then it says no Sacrifice....

[Dave]

it reinforces the one sacrifice and our amesome contract with the Holy Spirit.

It assures my salvation, I know the Holy Spirits Mercy and God's Grace! The last verse kind of shows you that there are righteous people. The whole thing spoke of sacrifices not beeing need, and then it says no Sacrifice....

It reinforces the fact of Christ's sacrifice for our sins, but it doesn't say we're guaranteed salvation. Read the other posts in this thread to understand what I mean!

And how can that last passage show what you claim it to show? It's not referring to righteous people.

[Anna]

We don't believe that you can't lose your salvation.

You get so defensive and hurt when you think we are speaking lies about your religion. Please refrain from hypocracy.

Skuba,

Now, now...where's all those Fruits of the Spirit you've been preaching to us about?

If you do not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved, then you need not post on this thread.

Others certainly do believe it.

Rom 5:15  But the two are not the same, because God's free gift is not like Adam's sin. It is true that many people died because of the sin of that one man. But God's grace is much greater, and so is his free gift to so many people through the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ. Rom 5:16  And there is a difference between God's gift and the sin of one man. After the one sin, came the judgment of "Guilty"; but after so many sins, comes the undeserved gift of "Not guilty!"

Rom 8:1  There is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus.

inDouche, there's no denying Sacred Scripture, Skuba, and the Catholic Church does not contradict it either.

You say you do not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved, but then you seem to be provding Scripture which you think would back it up...?

Really all that quote means is what you and I both believe: that sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience, and through Christ's obedience the gates of heaven were once again opened for the just.

However, that does require that we live justly, in accordance with God's laws and the precepts taught and exemplified by Christ Himself.

Please note the term "Free Gift"

Yes, the gift was that Christ freely gave Himself in atonement for our sins. Not that it was "free to all mankind, without obligation." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that all Bible-believing Christians believe we must do something: even if it as simple as repenting, accepting Christ, and being baptized. For those who choose not to, the free gift isn't redeemable, so to speak...

Now,

Now tell me this:

Why would you work for something that's available for free?

Now, that you would have to ask St. Paul:

Philippians 2:12 "So then, my dearly beloved, obedient as always to my urging, work with anxious concern to achieve your salvation, not only when I happen to be with you but all the more now that I am absent."

Pax Christi. <><

[BLAZEr]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is ONE of the major distinctions between the way Catholics Read the Bible and the way Protestants read the bible:

When a Catholic reads the bible he believes every verse could possibly be applied to him at any given moment.

When a Protestant reads the bible he believes that all the good verses apply to him (because he has Faith) and all the bad verses apply to the unbeliever.

Is this a fair distinction?

Now, I know that there are many different theologies in the various protestant churches (because the Bible is beleived to be sufficient for understanding what Christ taught, so everyone can get a different and sometimes contradictory understanding) and I don't want to assume that every denomination believes the above. But I just ask, is this a prevalent belief?

[foundsheep]

it reinforces the one sacrifice and our amesome contract with the Holy Spirit.

It assures my salvation, I know the Holy Spirits Mercy and God's Grace! The last verse kind of shows you that there are righteous people. The whole thing spoke of sacrifices not beeing need, and then it says no Sacrifice....

27

but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.

You should have finished reading the rest of the chapter. If you fall away you become an adversary.

[Anna]

And to us Catholics, falling away can be as serious as leaving the Church entirely, or simply falling into sin (rejecting God momentarily).

Pax Christi. <><

[foundsheep]

Amen.