The Change

[SirMyztiq]

Some of you have brought up that I was a Catholic and I was. When I was younger I attended a Catholic school and I was even on the way to becoming a priest. My aunt was a very avid member of the church. She was only 24 and she was well on her way to being very involved in the church.

About 5 years ago she got married. She became pregnant and her husband began to beat her. At this point her strict Catholic group told her not work it out and that a divorce is not the answer. She was badly hurt and demoralized. She didn't want to become a mother but I was told by her that her husband had lied when he said that he didn't ejaculate in order to get her pregnant. She decided to get an abortion.

A couple of months later she was banned and treated like pure and simple trash because of what she had done. My family was even mistreating her and I didn't know what to think. I now understand the stress she was going through and she has told me that she wouldn't have been able to support or care for that baby and that adoption would probably be the worst way for a child to grow. Today she still has remorse about her decision but in the end she knows that she did the right thing.

Now I look back and I'm disgusted by the way the Catholic community reacted to her. No way did their actions seem Christian or even loving. It all became lies to me and God slowly but surely was beginning to drift away from my life. I opened up to new ideas and now I have a hard time believing that I believed anything that I used to. I read the Bible and just laugh at my self for actually wanting to grow up and preach this stuff for a group of people who don't care about their lifes spiritually but the way the present themselves to public and try to make the public see things their way.

And that is why I think if there needs to any change it should come from the Church, majorly Christianity as a whole. I don't ever think that if God exists he'll come down happy with all sorts of hysteria that the Church is facing. There are so many sections of Church that is hard to believe that they are one. Christianity is no longer a spiritual thing it's more broadly wants to become a social phenomena and it's in my opinion straying from the real focus that is spiritual, physical and world health.

It's more and more trying to convince people to come to church rather than allowing them to find a path to church. You can't convince somebody of your beliefs by ridiculing away all other faiths. There must be a need for a person to believe in God and there must be that trust. A trust that at least to me is no longer there any more.

Now I see Christianity as a good way to lead the world into a more peaceful and loving planet. Thats about it. The whole Christian message that I want the world to follow is that of peace and love and not the "join us or go to hell" message that most people around the world believe.

I'm not arguing the existance of God because truly that is out of the question for me. I'm simply stating that religion needs to get back to a more true sense of self reliance than giving the people what they want.

Edited November 4, 2004 by SirMyztiq

[qfnol31]

I'm sorry to hear that about your aunt. I don't think that religion should be giving into what people want. If you want to talk sometime, I'm always up for it.

[Phazzan]

So where were you when your aunt was mistreated by family and friends?

[quote]Today she still has remorse about her decision but in the end she knows that she did the right thing.[/quote]

An "avid" Catholic would [b]never[/b] think such a thing!

Edited November 4, 2004 by Phazzan

[gonzaga]

Is this just an attempt to blacken the church's name?

I hope not

[BeenaBobba]

Hi SirMyztiq,

I'm really sorry to hear about your aunt. The Church is against divorce and remarriage because a valid marriage can never be broken. The Church, however, isn't against all civil divorces. In the case of your aunt, separation from her abusive husband would probably have been advised. That way, she would have been safe, and she'd have been able to keep her baby. Perhaps later on she could have gotten an annulment from the Church. She'd have had to file for a civil divorce in order to remarry (civilly) after that. Basically, an annulment says that a valid marriage never existed in the first place. Had she gotten one, she'd have been able to marry in the Church.

You know, the Catholic Church is full of sinners. I, for one, am a sinner. Because we're all sinners, you're bound to come across some big hypocrites. But as a Catholic, I believe that the Church is flawless, even though members of the Catholic Church are sinful. For example, during the child abuse scandals, I was disgusted by the behavior of the priests; yet, I know that the Catholic Church is against what the abusive priests did. The behavior of the priests is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.

You seem like a person who generally loves humanity. Have you ever read [i]The Brothers Karamazov[/i]? You remind me of one of the main characters, Ivan Karamazov. I really do hope you find God and religion again. I apologize for the lack of good advice I've given you. If there was something I could say to make you feel better about the situation, I'd say it (provided it didn't go against my beliefs, of course).

God bless,

Jen

[BeenaBobba]

I don't think that Catholicism's aim is to scare everyone into joining us. As a Catholic, I believe that God wants all people to be Catholic because Catholicism is in the fullness of the truth. If people are in the fullness of truth, they'll be able to receive what God wants to give us to the full extent on earth. I believe that God loves us beyond our wildest imaginings, so I want everyone to be able to love God and to know that he or she is loved back in return. That's definitely why I would love for the whole world to be Catholic.

God bless,

Jen

[homeschoolmom]

[quote]and that adoption would probably be the worst way for a child to grow. [/quote]

This is a rediculous statement and I think you know it.

[cmotherofpirl]

"About 5 years ago she got married. She became pregnant and her husband began to beat her. At this point her strict Catholic group told her not work it out and that a divorce is not the answer. She was badly hurt and demoralized. She didn't want to become a mother but I was told by her that her husband had lied when he said that he didn't ejaculate in order to get her pregnant. She decided to get an abortion.

A couple of months later she was banned and treated like pure and simple trash because of what she had done. My family was even mistreating her and I didn't know what to think. I now understand the stress she was going through and she has told me that she wouldn't have been able to support or care for that baby and that adoption would probably be the worst way for a child to grow. Today she still has remorse about her decision but in the end she knows that she did the right thing."



I am sorry that your aunt had such a bad time and she recieved incorrect information. She must have been very young and confused. The Church frowns on divorce because we do want people to try to work things out, but in the case of abuse there is no problem with a separation and divorce. Remarriage is an issue.

I am also sorry she felt she had to kill her child to get out of a bad situation. Most families do not react well to this, they feel they have lost a grandchild, a niece, a nephew etc. with great stress on both sides. God forgives, but most people take longer.
Catholics do not ban sinners [sin we would be banning ourselves constantly] any action taken by her friends was purely a reaction to the situation and nothing to do with the church. Some people cover their behavior by claiming it is church -sanctioned, it simply isn't true.
For her to decide that it is better to murder someone than to give them a good home elsewhere simply isn't true either. It is certainly not logical, but under great stress and terror few of us think logically. If your aunt really thought she did the right thing, she would have no remorse, so it is gnawing at her. She needs help.

I am glad you love and support your aunt, but we have to love people honestly. We can love people AND tell them the truth, because in the end the truth does set you free. You can support your aunt and disagree with her actions. We love the sinner, we do not agree with the sin.

Here is a website for you both to visit when you are ready: [url="http://www.noparh.org/"]http://www.noparh.org/[/url]
There is a toll free number at the bottom of the page.

Adopted people will tell you differently about the decision to be given to a loving family. If your aunt had chosen the hard way, some little boy or girl would be eagerly anticipating their 4th Christmas, and you could possibly be Christmas shopping for a godchild.

Edited November 4, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[jasJis]

I just want to say that as a Godfather to an adopted child and having a few adopted nephews, cousins, friends, etc., I know that adoption is a wonderful alternative. I do acknowledge that it can be extremely difficult for the birth mother, but it is a loving sacrifice for their child. It seems that your aunt did not recieve support and help she needed to choose adoption.

The one thing I notice in your story is doubt about the forgiveness of God. THERE IS NOTHING GOD WILL NOT FORGIVE IF WE ASK FOR FORGIVENESS. People easily blind themselves to God's mercy when they think about God's Justice. God has is Perfect Justice in the Sacrifice of His Only Son. Jesus has taken the burden of the death of your aunt's child on Himself. All your aunt has to do is ask for God's forgiveness that Jesus already merited for her.

People are small minded and mean. People choose killing their child in difficult situations. Sometimes other small minded and mean people cause or encourage others to kill their child by making the right choice almost humanely impossible. God forgives us way before we can forgive our selves.

Matthew 9:13 'God came to call the sinners, not the righteous. He seeks mercy, not sacrifice.' The same Bible that gives us 'Thou shall not...' also has 'I know you will and I love and forgive you anyway.'

From the long way around, I know that the fullness of God's mercy, love, and forgiveness is found only in the Catholic Church. It's God's gift to us. Don't shut God out because there are imperfect people like us in His Church.

God loves your aunt just as much as He loves Mother Teresa. In fact, when she returns to the Church, there will be greater joy in Heaven then when Blessed Mother Teresa entered the Gates. What was lost, can be found and will be an occaision of great joy!

[Theoketos]

Welcome to Phatmass.

Please forgive our sinful members.

May you find peace and forgiveness in Christ.

[shelly_freak]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Nov 4 2004, 07:25 AM']
This is a rediculous statement and I think you know it. [/quote]
yeah. I was just thinking that. I have a few very good, very nice friends who are adopted and live great lives. they have great and loving families and they know that their moms gave them up so they could have a better life.

[theculturewarrior]

Sometimes we suffer for the Church, and sometimes we suffer from the Church.

My sister was in a similar situation. She had gotten pregnant by a man who wasn't all there in the head, if you take my meaning. Anyway, she got an abortion. I actually encouraged her to do it because I had no convictions at the time.

Anyway, my sister will never be the same. There is no such thing as a "healthy" abortion. My sister will live the rest of her life wondering what her child might have been like. I guess I will too.

Of course, I'm not excusing the lack of charity your aunt's Catholic friends have showed her. It is inexcusable. But abortion kills. It kills babies, and it kills mothers spiritually. I'm trying to think of a greater evil right now and I can't.

God bless,

TCW

[Norseman82]

[quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 4 2004, 03:52 AM'] At this point her strict Catholic group told her not work it out and that a divorce is not the answer. She was badly hurt and demoralized.



[/quote]
Would you be at liberty to say what group this was? It might help us to know of this group to either avoid it or try to clean it up (in case it is an aberration in a group).


[quote]Today she still has remorse about her decision but in the end she knows that she did the right thing.[/quote]

I have to be blunt. True remorse means that she admits that what she did was wrong. That is what is meant by "metanoia", i.e., change of heart, which is necessary for the sacrament of confession. Once she crosses that divide, she will be able to go to confession and find peace with God and begin the damage repair in her spiritual life. I know that it might be a long journey considering the spousal abuse aftereffects, but it is a goal that should be set early in the game.

[Balthazor]

Sir....

I am not nearly as elequant as the other phatmassers here. I can't give you answers and I won't offer excuses.

All I can really offer you is a prayer for your aunt, your aunt's child and yourself.

I hope that you find Peace. God Bless.

Balthazor

[phatcatholic]

pham, lets try to be charitable here, instead of judgmental.

i second theoketos' sentiment