Guest Larien Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily...ews/6867156.htm :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I noticed you absolutely refrained from giving your opinion on this article which makes me question your motives for posting it. Now on to my position on the article.... 1. I am forced to question the lack of bias with which news is supposed to be presented when it comes to this article. Through out the entire article conservatives are villified and branded as oppressive. If I read it correctly the sole source of quotes seems to be from those who oppose the proposed rules or members of groups whose emotions the article is written to enflame. Due to the quotes made I would question how Catholic the "Catholic" sources are. The entire article is a farce of good journalism at best and, more likely, a blatant attack on the Church founded by Christ. As for me, if the magesterium feels such things are necessary then I will embrace them with proper vigor, and willfully submit to the teachings of those entrusted with Christ's church. In Obedience to Christ Mary's Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Dust, does this go against your rule on traditional versus modern? I'm not sure. Anyway, I'm waiting with baited breath for the new guidlines. I'm tired of seeing liturgical abuses. I'm glad that the Vatican is showing that the liturgy is a serious matter. I'm sad that the priests quoted get so angry at the church. The magazine "America" just plain makes me sad. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I know for a fact that the priest mentioned in the article, Fr. George Kenneally, is unorthodox. Back in the summer of '94, when Pope John Paul II was named Time Magazine's Man of the Year, an article was done about the parish and how it had instituted an alternative Mass (the one with dancing and stuff) that would cater especially to the liberals (read: heterodox). The press always manages to quote Catholics in name only rather than real Catholics. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 It never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of some people. I loved the part in that article that said under the new rules, lay persons will no longer be able to deliver the homily in Mass. Hello! A lay person should NEVER deliver the homily in Mass! Not now, not ever! Poetry can no longer replace a reading at Mass? Did I miss something? When has it EVER been permitted to use poetry as a substitute for one of the reasons. I'm not going to rehash the female altar server debate. I think we have beaten that one into the ground. These people are saddened that the Vatican is coming out with these "new rules" on the liturgy. I'm saddened that we have so many people within the Church who have distorted the liturgy so much that the Vatican has to come out with something like this in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I can't believe how much publicity this is getting. It was just a draft!!!!! There are some heretics/dissodents in the Vatican that keep on leaking stuff out to the media to demonise the Church. When I get home from school I have some info on this whole topic and I'll post it. Yianni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larien Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) My sad face meant I was sad about the possibility of no more female altar servers. I loved being an altar server when I was in grade school and don't understand what is so terrible about it As for what you said about poetry replacing the readings, I think you misread. What I believe they meant was that in homilies and stuff sometimes priests use poetry and other types of non-scriptural readings as part of their homily to prove their point or give a message. I see NOTHING wrong with this. I also see nothing wrong with receiving communion in our hands. As long as you are respectful about it, God made our hands as well as our mouths. As for lay people giving the homily, I agree they usually should not. But do they mean deacons too? Not really sure. *shrug* The deacons out our parish (who are married) sometimes give homilies. Don't know if they are lay people or not. I don't see any problem with, however, EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, a lay person being included in a homily. For example, sometimes we have had at our parish a missionary (who might be a lay person) come and speak during the homily. I belonged to a Life Teen parish. At our masses we could clap and sometimes sway with the music. We had a band with drums and electric guitars etc made entirely of teens who played music....CHRISTIAN music, but more upbeat stuff. We would also gather around the altar during this consecration. These things got me so much more into the Mass than I ever was before (and I think as well for a lot of other teens). I felt so close to God at those masses. What is wrong with that? It brings people closer to God? Taking these things away will only hurt people and make them doubt their leaders. By the way, no offense intended, but please don't jump on me for not posting my full opinion right away. I assure you I had no bad intentions. I thought my sad face would give you in general my opinion, then I wanted to see what other people had to say on the matter before I gave my full views. Sorry if I offended you. But I see no reason to consider me suspect. I thought Christians were supposed to love one another. It's kind of sad really. The main reason I posted this was to see how other people, other teens, some of whom probably ATTEND LIFE TEEN MASSES would respond to this topic. Since some of these new ideas are contrary to some of the things Life Teen does. The reason is because I've seen on this and other Catholic teen boards, people defend to the death church leaders nomatter what they say or do. It's nice to have such faith in your leaders, but what bothers me is some of you seem almost like you have no mind of your own. I don't mean any offense by that so please don't jump on me again. Just think whether these things are HURTING people, are hurting God, before you criticize them just because conservative church leaders say it is wrong. It's very interesting to see people who have probably gone to Life Teen masses suddenly turn against these things just because someone high up says its a bad idea. It's sad, and one of the reasons that lately, I've started to wonder if I belong on the Catholic church. I belief in the faith and morals whole-heartedly. I believe Jesus is God, I believe in the Real Presence, I believe in Mary and the saints. I believe abortion, death penalty, gay marraige, etc are all wrong. But sometimes the heirarchy does things that bother me. This is one of them. I praise God in a way that makes me close to him, and they want to take that away. It hurts and almost makes me angry. But like Peter I feel like, "Master to whom shall we go, you have the words of eternal life?" Where else can I go that will share my beliefs? :( Edited October 6, 2003 by Larien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Larien, According to the rubrics, either the priest or the deacon may give the homily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I belief in the faith and morals whole-heartedly. I believe Jesus is God, I believe in the Real Presence, I believe in Mary and the saints. I believe abortion, death penalty, gay marraige, etc are all wrong. But sometimes the heirarchy does things that bother me. This is one of them. I praise God in a way that makes me close to him, and they want to take that away. It hurts and almost makes me angry. But like Peter I feel like, "Master to whom shall we go, you have the words of eternal life?" Where else can I go that will share my beliefs? COOL! We don't always have to understand our Mother, the Church, but we do need to submit and prayerfully seek to understand the Truth she teaches us. Now, don't just sit. Be a saint. Get Busy! You've got the right attitude, you'd make a great nun . . . check these sites out: http://www.franciscansisterscfr.com http://www.nashvilledominican.org http://www.littlesistersofthepoor.org http://www.hawthorne-dominicans.org http://sistersoflife.org and tons more at http://www.religiouslife.com/womencommun.phtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 my apologies Larien, I did jump the gun and I'm sorry for that. I met too many dissenters lately though that has nothing to do with you and I should not have made the assumption I did (ok someone can give me the like about what assuming does ;-) ) When I first read the post the sad face didn't show up. LifeTeen does have many things that might be abuses of the Liturgy but I think to a degree most of what they do comes down to a matter of looking at the fruit it bears. I too must credit them with helping me come more deeply into the church. I, personally, see nothing wrong with female altar servers, unless it causes disturbances, but i'll also bet I'm not seeing things from the same perspective they are. But my main reason for this post was to apologize for not approaching with an attitude of love, and I hope you will forgive me for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larien Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 You're apology is accepted :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 hey larien? just watned to say welcome and if you want give an intro (since your a newbie) in the "Open Mic" thread and post in the "Checking IN" thread at the top if ya want... God bless! +JMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I'm 17 and I like the Mass to be faithful to what the Church allows. I don't like it when Priests change the Liturgy to suit their wants and needs. For me I don't need rock music and I DON'T need to stand around the altar to appreciate what is going on. I know of hundreds of Catholics my age and younger who have the same views. It boils down to studying up on what the Mass is untill you can appreciate it to the fullest. We shouldn't need to prissy up the Holy Sacrifice. After all, we all have the same kind of Mass because then we are in communion with all the other Masses said around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 My sad face meant I was sad about the possibility of no more female altar servers. I loved being an altar server when I was in grade school and don't understand what is so terrible about it As for what you said about poetry replacing the readings, I think you misread. What I believe they meant was that in homilies and stuff sometimes priests use poetry and other types of non-scriptural readings as part of their homily to prove their point or give a message. I see NOTHING wrong with this. I also see nothing wrong with receiving communion in our hands. As long as you are respectful about it, God made our hands as well as our mouths. As for lay people giving the homily, I agree they usually should not. But do they mean deacons too? Not really sure. *shrug* The deacons out our parish (who are married) sometimes give homilies. Don't know if they are lay people or not. I don't see any problem with, however, EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, a lay person being included in a homily. For example, sometimes we have had at our parish a missionary (who might be a lay person) come and speak during the homily. I belonged to a Life Teen parish. At our masses we could clap and sometimes sway with the music. We had a band with drums and electric guitars etc made entirely of teens who played music....CHRISTIAN music, but more upbeat stuff. We would also gather around the altar during this consecration. These things got me so much more into the Mass than I ever was before (and I think as well for a lot of other teens). I felt so close to God at those masses. What is wrong with that? It brings people closer to God? Taking these things away will only hurt people and make them doubt their leaders. By the way, no offense intended, but please don't jump on me for not posting my full opinion right away. I assure you I had no bad intentions. I thought my sad face would give you in general my opinion, then I wanted to see what other people had to say on the matter before I gave my full views. Sorry if I offended you. But I see no reason to consider me suspect. I thought Christians were supposed to love one another. It's kind of sad really. The main reason I posted this was to see how other people, other teens, some of whom probably ATTEND LIFE TEEN MASSES would respond to this topic. Since some of these new ideas are contrary to some of the things Life Teen does. The reason is because I've seen on this and other Catholic teen boards, people defend to the death church leaders nomatter what they say or do. It's nice to have such faith in your leaders, but what bothers me is some of you seem almost like you have no mind of your own. I don't mean any offense by that so please don't jump on me again. Just think whether these things are HURTING people, are hurting God, before you criticize them just because conservative church leaders say it is wrong. It's very interesting to see people who have probably gone to Life Teen masses suddenly turn against these things just because someone high up says its a bad idea. It's sad, and one of the reasons that lately, I've started to wonder if I belong on the Catholic church. I belief in the faith and morals whole-heartedly. I believe Jesus is God, I believe in the Real Presence, I believe in Mary and the saints. I believe abortion, death penalty, gay marraige, etc are all wrong. But sometimes the heirarchy does things that bother me. This is one of them. I praise God in a way that makes me close to him, and they want to take that away. It hurts and almost makes me angry. But like Peter I feel like, "Master to whom shall we go, you have the words of eternal life?" Where else can I go that will share my beliefs? Larien, you must understand though, there are certain guidelines that we MUST follow when offering Mass. I've debated this a lot on here, and I don't really want to get into it again, mostly out of respect for dUST's wish that we not discuss it, but let me just say, there are certain rubrics we must follow. These are about big things, such as the words that must be said when and by whom, who can read the Gospel and give the homily (BTW, it is perfectly acceptable for a deacon to give a homily), the color of vestments that must be worn, and who is allowed near the altar at the consecration. These are also about little things, such as what order the vestments are to be worn (i.e. the stoll goes under the chasuble). I realize many of you think I'm being picky, but we as Catholics have a right from our priests to have proper liturgy. The Mass is not our personal play-thing that we can change and do whatever we want with, but it is Calvary made present, the eternal sacrifice of Christ and it should be done according to how the Vatican says it should be done. Look, no hard feelings. Like I said, I don't want to get into this a great deal, but I would encourage you to go to this site http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/forum8.htm and check out what it says. You can do a search for LifeTeen on there as well and see some questions. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeToma Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Larien: Sadly, the document is addressing people replacing readings in Mass with poems and other non-scriptural documents. I present to you St. Joan of Arc Minneapolis, MN. This parish also has lay persons delivering homolies and 7 Homosexual support groups (neither of which is Courage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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