Trooper4DaHolyG Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I saw a post somewhere on here where Trooper posted something like "YOU (plural) are Rock and upon this Rock I will build my Church" Meaning that the YOU meant everyone, or at least all the Apostles. If this is inDouche what you meant, then consider the first few words BEFORE that quote "YOU ARE PETER..." didnt mention a word about anyone else, but PETER..dont see how the "YOU" in that sentence could mean multiple people. and if you didnt mean that, then just pretend this post doesnt exist and go on with your side stepping CatholicAndFanatical hahaha nice one dude cept that one wasn't me! my argument, is that the rock referred to Christ and not Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 my argument, is that the rock referred to Christ and not Peter Why could it only have referred to Christ? Because Christ is often referred to as "rock"? Well, we know that this does not have to mean Peter was not the rock because, not only would it contradict all other evidence, it would also contradict Old Testament passages where Abraham is called "rock" (such as Isaiah 51:1-2), even though the word "rock" was a title reserved primarily for God. So what do we conclude? That Peter, like Abraham, was given a title usually reserved to God. The mere fact that "rock" was a title often applied to God, then, proves nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 ur smart Dave I will give you that. I am not sure i really like that verse, its hard to understand. Except I believe as the only logical thing to do, Christ was that Rock, not Simon as he was refferd to by Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 ur smart Dave I will give you that. I am not sure i really like that verse, its hard to understand. Except I believe as the only logical thing to do, Christ was that Rock, not Simon as he was refferd to by Jesus. But Jesus changed his name from Simon, to Peter, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 ur smart Dave I will give you that. Why thank you! You're making me blush! I am not sure i really like that verse, its hard to understand. How so? Except I believe as the only logical thing to do, Christ was that Rock, not Simon as he was refferd to by Jesus. Why would that be logical? Peter means "rock," just like Kephas does. Why would Jesus call Peter "rock" if He was that rock? I mean, in other foreign languages, it's more obvious -- there's no different word for the name Peter and rock. For example, in French it would read, "Tu es Pierre, et sur cette pierre . . . ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 But Jesus changed his name from Simon, to Peter, right? Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 ur smart Dave I will give you that. I am not sure i really like that verse, its hard to understand. Except I believe as the only logical thing to do, Christ was that Rock, not Simon as he was refferd to by Jesus. 16 11 Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Do you not see the distinction here if you read the whole thing? First He calls him Simon then says you are peter. Do you know who Cephas or kephas is in pauls letters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 The name Peter means rock. Jesus was refering to Peter, the rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Jesus, Who Is the Rock of our salvation, was appointing Peter to be Rock... Peter was to carry on Christ's work on earth, once Christ left this earth. Peter was to be Christ's representative, the spokesman of Christ's Church. Bible scholars and historians both understand this to be correct and true. Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I was hoping trooper could answer that guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 There is no other logical conclusion. He may not like this verse, but it is True. Jesus established a Church, and someone to lead His Church. His Church has existed and carried on the traditions He taught them for over 2000 years now. His Church composed the New Testament. And His Church compiled the Holy Bible. Oh, yeah, and .... His Church is Infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 (edited) opppp....im on my moms name Edited October 8, 2003 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 a swing and a miss strike one come ON guys... you arent even showing any effort...id fail you if this was phys ed. (thats what i meant to post, but i did it under my moms name) :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 There is no other logical conclusion. He may not like this verse, but it is True. Jesus established a Church, and someone to lead His Church. His Church has existed and carried on the traditions He taught them for over 2000 years now. His Church composed the New Testament. And His Church compiled the Holy Bible. And that church that God used Peter to establish 2000 years ago is now made up of many believers from many different backgrounds in many different denomenations. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 [jas], you answer is logically and philisophically unsound. There is only one COMPLETE TRUTH, and the rest of the versions have to contain some mistruths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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