[jas] Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 God is emeth. By the way, "emeth" isn't a word I've heard before... what does it mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 It means reliable. God not to change His ways. You can trust him to be faithful, even when we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 ,Oct 6 2003, 09:00 AM] Can we ask you the same question? Well, the Catholic Church doesn't have to worry about teaching incorrectly. Jesus endowed it with infallibility and assured us that it will never stray. He promised the gates of hell would never prevail against it. By contrast, Protestant churches are man-made, and so they don't have infallibility or the promises of Jesus that I just mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Yes that was the response I was expecting, Dave But can we ask you the question anyway, what if your interpretation of that verse is wrong, and Jesus was saying His family of believers would never be destroyed, and that your church isn't necessarily infallible? What if you're wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 [jas] We'd like for you to share your talk with us. If God is emeth, and we are not, then the Church cannot be ourselves alone becasue God (Jesus) said the the Holy Spirit will abide forever in the Church. That is the root of the Catholic understanding of the Church. The Church is us (changing) and the Holy Spirit (emeth). For a example. If God is the Color RED, the Truth is RED. Our understanding may change. We may learn more about RED. But the RED stays the same. We may at one time that it's one of the colors of the rainbow. As we get to know more, we can say that we percieve it as a reflection off a surface, the other colors are abosorbed. At a greater depth of knowledge we could say that the color is photon reflection oscillating at a certain wavelength which is different than the others. We have explained and talked about RED in different terms and levels of understanding, but RED is all it has been and has not changed one iota. Everything we said about RED is true, but not the complete Truth. The Catholic Church preserves the Deposit of Faith. Scripture, the Teachings of the Apostles, developed understanding, etc. But with the Holy Spirit abiding in it, Perfect RED is always there in all these things to correct human misunderstandings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 jasjis, excellent explanation. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 [jas] We'd like for you to share your talk with us. *goes to try and find it* If God is emeth, and we are not, then the Church cannot be ourselves alone becasue God (Jesus) said the the Holy Spirit will abide forever in the Church. That is the root of the Catholic understanding of the Church. The Church is us (changing) and the Holy Spirit (emeth). What about where is says that the Holy Spirit lives in me, that I am a temple of the Holy Spirit... how does that line up with what you're saying there? For a example. If God is the Color RED, the Truth is RED. Our understanding may change. We may learn more about RED. But the RED stays the same. We may at one time that it's one of the colors of the rainbow. As we get to know more, we can say that we percieve it as a reflection off a surface, the other colors are abosorbed. At a greater depth of knowledge we could say that the color is photon reflection oscillating at a certain wavelength which is different than the others. We have explained and talked about RED in different terms and levels of understanding, but RED is all it has been and has not changed one iota. Everything we said about RED is true, but not the complete Truth. The Catholic Church preserves the Deposit of Faith. Scripture, the Teachings of the Apostles, developed understanding, etc. But with the Holy Spirit abiding in it, Perfect RED is always there in all these things to correct human misunderstandings. Hey, thanks for that, that's a great way of expressing your church's understanding. *gets it* :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 i dont think anyone has come up with a valid counter arguement I challenge anyone to prove these points, using scritpural reference, or any other VALID source 1. Christ didnt found HIS church on Peter. 2. Christ didnt found any church, we founded churches on Him. 3. The Catholic church is NOT the church that Christ founded. bring it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 ,Oct 6 2003, 11:52 AM] *goes to try and find it* What about where is says that the Holy Spirit lives in me, that I am a temple of the Holy Spirit... how does that line up with what you're saying there? Hey, thanks for that, that's a great way of expressing your church's understanding. *gets it* THe Holy Spirit is in us when we are in a state of Grace, we are Temple's of the Holy Spirit. THe Holy Spirit also guards the Church from error. He does not guard me from error. I can be fooled, decieved, duped, misunderstand and be confused. God cannot and will not do this to us. He is emeth. THerefore if I think the Holy Spirit is telling me something different than Church teaching, I am in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 ,Oct 6 2003, 09:52 AM] What about where is says that the Holy Spirit lives in me, that I am a temple of the Holy Spirit... how does that line up with what you're saying there? Well, I kinda didn't cover that. Part of the problem when humans talk about God. We are so limited as individuals. We get the Holy Spirit as a grace of Baptism. That is why Catholics recognize all Christian Baptisms. We never lose the presence of the Holy Spirt, but we never lose the ability to ignore the H.S. That's why we recognize only 1 Baptism and baptize children. It's about recieving the Holy Spirit as a gift from God, not earned by knowledge or maturity. As we grow in knowledge and maturity, more is demanded from us as maturity and knowledge is only from grace. So back to the fact we all have the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church also teaches that ultimately we are responsible to follow the Holy Spirit as it speaks in our own conscience. But what many Catholics and most Protestants forget is that the Holy Spirit helps us form our Conscience through the Graces of Scripture, the teachings of the Church, etc. This is what the Catholic Catechism says: CATECHISM: 1790: A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. 1791: This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin." In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. 1792: Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct. 1793: If—on the contrary—the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience. 1794: A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith." The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct. (The Catechism explains the interpretation of Scripture. The foot notes refer back to Scripture verse or Church writings that would then refer back to Scripture). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 i dont think anyone has come up with a valid counter arguement I challenge anyone to prove these points, using scritpural reference, or any other VALID source 1. Christ didnt found HIS church on Peter. 2. Christ didnt found any church, we founded churches on Him. 3. The Catholic church is NOT the church that Christ founded. bring it on They won't bring it, cuz they can't bring it. They will just ignore, or change the subject, or skew the issue. To be honest with you, most of the Protestants on this board don't even know what their churches actually teach. Scott Hahn made this point once in a talk he gave at Notre Dame. Basically he said: When Catholics try to catechize anti-Catholics they are fighting ignorance and misunderstanding and personal interpretation mixed with pride. It's like well verse Protestants trying to argue with run of the mill poorly catechised but faithful Catholics. They just go nuts when their "logic" doesn't convince them to abandon their faith. He said the difference is that the logic of the Protestants is faulty and the logic of the Church is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) Actually Dude, "it" refers to the Church not the Rock/Peter. Secondly, Skuba Steve, watch those low blows (no pun intended but childishly laughing ). I know that "it" is refering to the Church and not Peter. That is what I said. I just wanted to post the whole verse. Why would one Church be as good as another? Since no Church is the same, only one of them can be 100% correct. Edited October 6, 2003 by thedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I saw a post somewhere on here where Trooper posted something like "YOU (plural) are Rock and upon this Rock I will build my Church" Meaning that the YOU meant everyone, or at least all the Apostles. If this is inDouche what you meant, then consider the first few words BEFORE that quote "YOU ARE PETER..." didnt mention a word about anyone else, but PETER..dont see how the "YOU" in that sentence could mean multiple people. and if you didnt mean that, then just pretend this post doesnt exist and go on with your side stepping CatholicAndFanatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 and if you didnt mean that, then just pretend this post doesnt exist and go on with your side stepping Isn't that a type of country western dance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 So, Steve, Let me see if I get you straight: Any denomination calling itself "Christian" is a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, and the Catholic Church happens to be the buttocks?" umm.... *looks at celing* So.... how about those Nicks!? This aint anything but say the colour of each word out loud. Or maybe it's the other way around. RED BLUEYELLOW GREEN BLACK PINK ORANGE WHITE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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