Guest Aluigi Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I was always curious how a modern geocentric model of the universe would look well, here, I found some cool graphics: [img]http://catholicoutlook.com/images/movingsolar5.gif[/img] [img]http://catholicoutlook.com/images/movingsolar7.gif[/img] Anyway, this was used by the anti-geo-centrist in a dialogue i found here: [url="http://catholicoutlook.com/centerofmass2.php"]http://catholicoutlook.com/centerofmass2.php[/url] If anyone here is a geocentrist, how would you account for the fact that a perfect balance of mass cannot be observed all the time? (this argument is made on the second page of the dialogue) [quote][quote]If Mr. Hoge already admits that in his own system a group of celestial bodies will “balance each other out,” then it is no contradiction for me to apply the same principle to the geocentric system and say that God has so aligned the stars and the sun so that, with the Earth as the center, they will all “balance each other out” and allow the Earth to remain the center of mass.[/quote] Bob, you need to remember that if the earth is the permanent center of mass of the universe, this balancing you mention has to happen all the time. That's each and every moment of each and every day. In other words, if you're right, it would be possible to take a "snapshot" of the universe at any moment of any day of any month of any year, and show that the masses are arranged so that the center of mass of the system coincides with the center of mass of the earth. I don't think you realize how impossible that is, or how complex the motion of the solar system is – especially if it's geocentric. The figure below should make this clear. It shows the motion of the geocentric universe over a one-year period, from September 8, 1980 to August 31, 1981. Although it looks as if the sphere of stars isn't moving, that's not the case. The frames of the animation were taken at one-week intervals, so the sphere will have rotated seven times between each frame. But each "snapshot" was taken at the time of day when the sphere of stars was located exactly where it was the week before. [refer to second graphic from above] As the sun and planets go looping and cork-screwing around the sky, it becomes clear that the arrangment of the planetary masses is like the proverbial snowflake: they'll never be arranged the same way twice. In this particular year, all of the solar system's masses are located to the right of the earth in September. As the year progresses, they swing around above the earth, and then some of them pass to the left of the earth and others pass to the right. Obviously, there's no way the earth can be the center of mass of that cartwheeling, constantly-rearranging system on each and every day of the year. And because the sphere of stars is in the same position in each "snapshot," it can't possibly counterbalance the other masses in the system as they move to different positions.[/quote] Anyway, if there's geocentrists out there, I seem to recall someone around here being geocentirst, we could debate i guess -Pax- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky2 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 While the Earth is obviousely not the physical center of the Universe; there is mounting scientific evidence that it may be the only, or one of a very few places where life can exist. If this turns out to be true than, in a sence, the Earth really is the center of the Universe. Suggest you read "Rare Earth" by Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee also read "The Creator and the Cosmos" by Hugh Ross Ricky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 There are people out there who argue to the contrary, I take it as quite an embarassing error for a Christian to take because they tend to infer that the Bible supports Geocentrism thereby making the Bible look ludacris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeFan Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 [quote name='Ricky2' date='Nov 1 2004, 11:18 PM'] Suggest you read "Rare Earth" by Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee [/quote] Dude, the master / director of ceremonies for the Archdiocese of St. Louis recommended that book to me. But, properly speaking, heliocentrism has not yet been proven, at least according to Aristotle's standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Because of the uniformly accelerating expansion due to the Big Bang, any given spot in the universe could be said to be the center or origin. So, if all you consider is semantics, then sure, geocentrism works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 that's odd... hmm... but still, all evidence shows it is not and theoretically it's an impossibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 2 2004, 05:54 PM'] that's odd... hmm... but still, all evidence shows it is not and theoretically it's an impossibility [/quote] All evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 do you have any credible evidence to the contrary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicforChrist Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Aluigi, I have recently started looking into this. I have seen no more proof for heliocentrism than for geocentrism, so I am not going to take what the secular humanist public school system says as fact. In any event, there are apparently several scientists who have brought very substantial evidence (which has been unrefuted so far) for geocentrism. I know at least one gentleman who is a geocentrist. He seems to have investigated it substantially and understands the specifics, but I do not know much about the issue. I can basically say that I am unsure on this issue simply because I have not looked into it enough to find real evidence on either side. I have seen images depicting both positions without real evidence (that I have read). I know there are plenty of arguments out there, but I have simply not investigated it fully yet. It would seem that Scripture does support geocentrism, and this was the belief held by all until sometime after Galileo. "Then Josue spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon. And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day. There was not before nor after so long a day, the Lord obeying the voice of a man, and fighting for Israel." Josue x.12-14 (Joshua in Protestant Bibles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 i'm definately too dumb for this thread. have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 [quote name='mulls' date='Nov 3 2004, 05:33 PM'] i'm definately too dumb for this thread. have fun. [/quote] I read an ad in the Wanderer some years back entitled "Galileo: Nincompoop!" saying that the sun used to revolve around the earth but sometime in the 16th century God, "for reasons of his own, quietly decided to switch things around." Then that Nincompoop Galileo had to "make a big deal of this." Aw, Trads! Gotta love 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 CatholicForChrist, you of all people should notice this way of talking as being like saying "raining cats and dogs" or "sun standing still in the sky" the Bible doesn't have a position except for the fundamentalist literalists who cannot see the dynamics of the words just the mere words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 [quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 3 2004, 07:42 PM'] I read an ad in the Wanderer some years back entitled "Galileo: Nincompoop!" saying that the sun used to revolve around the earth but sometime in the 16th century God, "for reasons of his own, quietly decided to switch things around." Then that Nincompoop Galileo had to "make a big deal of this." Aw, Trads! Gotta love 'em! [/quote] I actually saw that... (or something in the same vein) not too long ago though... maybe a year ago? and I'm not a big reader of the Wanderer... purely coincidence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 The Wanderers not bad, for the most part (it can get depressing though). However, it does get some nutty advertisers. (But I've seen some even weirder ads in the Washington Times) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Actually Al... I believe in geocentrism. I know a guy who works for NASA and said that (btw, this is top secret) the clandestine masonic world government invented heliocentrism and have fabricated everything that supports it. We have never walked on the moon, that was all camera tricks, and the moon is in fact made of coagulated milk. Ask Walter Kronkite is you don't believe me. j/k.. sorry.. I always feel bad after I fib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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