Long Hair vs. Short Hair

[Quietfire]

Ah yes.

But God loves various colors.



Pax.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Nov 5 2004, 06:52 PM'] Mary, my Avatar is an example....the Black Madonna.
[/quote]
This isn't intended to detract from anything said, or start an argument, just make a small correction/clarification - The "Black Madonna" isn't intended to depict a "Black" or African woman. It is dark from accumulated smoke on the image where it was enshrined, and thus acquired its nickname. The Black Madonna, or Our Lady of Czestochowa, is a Polish icon, and the Polish people are definitely white, often blond.

Edited November 6, 2004 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='D0RK4JP2' date='Nov 5 2004, 06:40 PM'] As if there were the old barber to visit back then anyways. I doubt our Blessed Lord had His hair combed neatly to the side

JMJ. [/quote]
The Romans of the time generally kept their hair cropped close. I'm not sure about the Jews.

[StColette]

Yep you're right Socrates, I was about to say something about that comment.

A better example of Mary appearing to the likeness of a different culture, is when she appeared in Akita, Japan. The portraits and statues that I have seen, which portray her as Our Lady of Akita, make her into the likeness of a Japanese woman.

[Jedi_StClaire]

My favorite "international" depiction of Our Lady is the Our Lady of Guadaloupe picture. I like it because she was portrayed holding a cloth in her hands, that if I remember right, had something to do with symbolizing pregnancy.......

can anyone confirm that?

[StColette]

I know that when Our Lady of Gaudelupe appeared to St. Jaun Diego, she appeared pregnant. I believe the cloth you are talking about is the black bow around her waist, and to the Aztecs this signified that a woman was pregnant.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='mulls' date='Nov 4 2004, 12:31 AM'] white supremacist groups also use these images as justification for racism, especially against the Jews. [/quote]
Two-point plan:

1/ Point out that Jesus was jewish.
2/ RUN!!

[Balthazor]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 5 2004, 09:47 PM']This isn't intended to detract from anything said, or start an argument, just make a small correction/clarification - The "Black Madonna" isn't intended to depict a "Black" or African woman.  It is dark from accumulated smoke on the image where it was enshrined, and thus acquired its nickname.  The Black Madonna, or Our Lady of Czestochowa, is a Polish icon, and the Polish people are definitely white, often blond.[/quote]

I know this, I have been to Jasna Gora in Czestochowa. I know she is not meant to be be an African...She is a byzantine icon. I should have been clearer on my thoughts on this.
Since I am Polish and have been to Poland I realize that Polish people are fair skinned.

I was just trying to use her to illustrate the many faces and colors of Mary. My comment was never intended to indicate that she was African or originally painted as black.

I suppose I should have clarifyed the point on the history of Poland and the history of the painting first..... sometimes my mind makes connections without me ever explaining them.

The interesting thing I find about this painting is that it is a Byzantine Icon.....which was venerated in Orthodox Russia and in Catholic Poland....It is like...for me....she is this symbol of the churches original unity and a point of common ground for Eastern and Western Christianity.A painting like this....this circumstance and phenominom of the paining....just illustrates how close everyone really is. Since the Black Madonna goes back deeper than the rifts between the churches it is almost like a healing or a connecting of something deeper.

OOOO...another fun fact about Poland!
Catholic Poland and Orthodox Lithuania were once joined in a commonwealth .....and not all the kings of Poland were Polish, perhaps the greatest king, King Jagiello was Lithuanian....and Orthodox not Catholic. I believe he Converted to Catholicism, but he still retained his preference to for Orthodox style art. Evidence of this can be found in the chapel of The Holy Trinity in Lublin which is a Catholic chapel which King Jagiello had painted in fresco entirely in Byzantine-Russian style.

Something like this miraculous painting might have made it easier for King Jagiello, and would have been a nice bridge for him between the Catholic and Orthodox. He did, after all, have the painting "restored" in his court.... Considering his preferences in art I can imagine that when it was "restored" this preferance of Orthodox-style artwork might have played a part in how the restored image turned out to look like.

My point with the Black Madonna of Czestochowa was that not a uniter of black people that would be foolish, there are almost no black people in Poland. ... ... I know this from personal experience.

I do find it ironic and clightly humorous though that a Byzantine icon called the "Black Madonna" would become the premier symbol of the Catholicism in pasty white Poland.

There are interestingly many "Black Madonnas" through Europe....I visited a second one in Einsiedeln Switzerland.

I am sorry if I confused anyone on this point.....
Please accept my humble apology....I didn't mean to lead any one astray on the nationality or intended skin color of Mary

I hope you guys now understand where my train of thought was when I wrote my last post.
My Goodness! I never thought that a simple sentence in a post would have to lead to me explaining a long and rather complex thought as this.

Please don't read too much into this post....it was mearly a thought that was passing through my pointed little skull, I just want you guys to see were I was coming from.

[Balthazor]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Nov 6 2004, 01:26 PM'] Two-point plan:

1/ Point out that Jesus was jewish.
2/ RUN!! [/quote]

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Nov 6 2004, 03:45 PM']Since I am Polish and have been to Poland I realize that Polish people are fair skinned.[/quote]
You obviously haven't been listening to Righteous B's "Keilbasa Posse" on Phatmass Radio!

"The Homie ain't Hawaiian, he's a dark-skinned Pole..."

[jdjars]

have you ever heard of the national shrine of our lady of czestochowa in doylestown, pennsylvania? it is gorgeous there... the bottom half of the shrine is a replica of the chapel in poland. its a little closer to home... haha. but nothing beats the real thing.