I support and fully sponsor Kerry

[Good Friday]

[quote name='Paladin D']I could type out a long post ranting about Kerry, but I'll let you keep the Idiot award.[/quote]
I think that was somewhat uncalled for.

[quote name='popestpiusx']You fully sponsor Kerry? Wow, you must be loaded.[/quote]
This, on the other hand . . . :thatsfunny:

[Balthazor]

[quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 1 2004, 02:38 AM']
Instead of focusing on "abstinence" and why not to have sex like Bush has we should FACE THE FACTS. Teens are not thinking twice about having sex and instead of making it impossible to have safe sex we should be more broad and actually tell them of ways to have sex without risking a child's life.



[/quote]
Actually, from everthing I have heard abstinance only programs are more effective than "educate them because they are going to do it any way" programs.
If I can find any info on this I will post it...but thus far I think you are dead wrong on this one.

Every program I have gone through in school was promoting having safe sex, for the prevention of STDs and pregnancy...morals never entered into this discussion and that is sad. And then abstinance was only mentioned as the best sure fire option for avoiding pregnancy and disease. Do you want to know the result of this??? Rampant sex and high school pregnancy.

When I was in high school a bunch of the moms got worried that their daughters were having sex...so what did they do? they put their daughtes on the shot. The result? These girls, half of which were not having sex, started having sex with their boyfriends becasue now the fear of getting pregnant was gone and their mothers, by putting them on the shot were pretty much condoning premarital sex.


And what is this nonsense of risking a childs life.....children should not be having sex!!!!!! This statement is utter lunacy. I refuse to sccept fourteen your olds having intercourse as an acceptable aspect of my society, and I see abstinace programs as a at least a shot at instilling morals into kids whose parents haven't done such.

I think that people that think teenagers have no self control are the ones who have to wake up and face the facts. We are talking about humanbeings here not animals in heat. If we wake up and start treating them like human beings they are much ore likely to act accordingly.

Balthazor

[Krush2k2]

eh... my thoughts in second...

Edited November 1, 2004 by Krush2k2

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 1 2004, 02:38 AM'] My first post how exciting!

We'll I'm a loose Catholic/Deist and very liberal. On the edge of being hypocritical but not quite there yet.

I support John Kerry on this election completely and I feel very confident that he is the man to get us out of the situation we are living in.

Bush is a wack job who got his job because his media friends gave him a boost. We live on a time where talking bad about our president only makes us unpatriotic and anti-american. That is as far from the truth as It can be. It's that very liberty that makes America great and it's the very fact that people can object to our president that makes us as patriotic as any American flag waving citizen out there.

Many have gone to great lenghts to say that basically Jesus sponsors Bush. That right there is as low as religious people can get. I don't understand if it's just incompetence in the understanding of our Constitution or the recent religious hype that has been happening. Yes I call it hype. "Jesus is my friend" and "I'm Christian" shirts are pure propaganda. The Church, which was once respected is now becoming more and more an issue of being popular. Not only the Catholic church but many other Protestant religions. Religion is pure hype now adays.

Back on topic, we now have a President that is capturing peoples minds with his agenda of "Christianity is the way I'll rule this country" Which to me is purely unconstitutional and that alone makes him unfit for president. A president must understand that not every citizen of this country is a Christian. He must understand that the decisions he makes must only add to the liberty of this country and not take it away.

As citizens we have no right to forcefully project our views and beliefs unto others. It's wrong and it's as far from patriotic as anything.

I feel that abortion is wrong and it shouldn't be happening. But that doesn't mean I'm going to force a woman to make that decision. It's her body and her conscience at work there and I feel that any grown woman has the capacity to make her own decisions as she sees fit.

Instead of focusing on "abstinence" and why not to have sex like Bush has we should FACE THE FACTS. Teens are not thinking twice about having sex and instead of making it impossible to have safe sex we should be more broad and actually tell them of ways to have sex without risking a child's life.

The war on terror has lost it's track with Iraq. Osama Bin Laden is still alive and well. Many Pro-bush people are coming out to say that Osama endorses Kerry which is very stupid and naive. Osama attacked us because of our policy. Our policy which has been around before clinton and during the Bush Sr. era when we supported Iraq and then switched to sponsor the Christian country of Israel. We are not fighting a country or a group of citizens. These Muslims are fighting for their religion and views and they will stop at nothing, just like Christians would to defend it.

Bush has made a mockery of our once respected country by the acts he has commited. He favors the rich instead of helping the ones who need it more and has gone as far as to prohibiting liberty by trying to ban gay marriage-which has nothing to do with it's religious counterpart.

And for the final note Republicans are known to run dirty politics. Bush has had his people focusing on anything but the issues and is running the worst smear campaign ever.

Who's to say cheaters never prosper? The way things are today they could become president one day. [/quote]
Me too...NOT! [/Wayne'sWorldFlashback]

[Krush2k2]

[quote]Back on topic, we now have a President that is capturing peoples minds with his agenda of "Christianity is the way I'll rule this country" Which to me is purely unconstitutional and that alone makes him unfit for president. A president must understand that not every citizen of this country is a Christian. He must understand that the decisions he makes must only add to the liberty of this country and not take it away. [/quote]

Ok first of all, all time low? what is wrong with a president who applies Christian morality to the principles of how he runs office? Secondly, he alone does not 'rule' the country-we have a senate and congress who co junctionally makes decisions for the citizens who 'elected' them. Also in accordance to seperation of church and state Bush does not impoose his faith on anyone.

[quote]Bush is a wack job who got his job because his media friends gave him a boost[/quote]

Whoa, Bush getting a boost from the media? I'm pretty sure that most democrats agree that the media is controlled by a liberal mindset. News stories such as Dan Rather's false accusations, the constant bashing from New York presses and the alleged weapons missing accusations without conclusive evidence is proof that this media will run anything to hurt Bushs' election campaign without real credibility. The news my friend boost if anybody John Kerry.

[quote]Many have gone to great lenghts to say that basically Jesus sponsors Bush. That right there is as low as religious people can get. I don't understand if it's just incompetence in the understanding of our Constitution or the recent religious hype that has been happening. Yes I call it hype. "Jesus is my friend" and "I'm Christian" shirts are pure propaganda. The Church, which was once respected is now becoming more and more an issue of being popular. Not only the Catholic church but many other Protestant religions. Religion is pure hype now adays[/quote]

People who say this are doing so because Jesus sponsors Pro-Life, Kerry on the other hand does not, and even votes for tax payers money to fund abortions for those who cannot afford it.

[quote]I feel that abortion is wrong and it shouldn't be happening. But that doesn't mean I'm going to force a woman to make that decision. It's her body and her conscience at work there and I feel that any grown woman has the capacity to make her own decisions as she sees fit.[/quote]

First of all, I'm glad you condede that you think abortion is wrong. You must then obviously realize that it is murdering of an innocent child. Her pro-choice was in the act of sex. Do you think I should be able to murder anyone legally by strangling them just because I am using my own hands(body) Regardless of your body, it doesn not make the act of murder a passable thing to do. There should be consequences for taking the lives of the innocent. Like Mother Teresa said, what kind of worl do we live in where it is permissable for a mother to murder her own child? God is not smiling.

[quote]Instead of focusing on "abstinence" and why not to have sex like Bush has we should FACE THE FACTS. Teens are not thinking twice about having sex and instead of making it impossible to have safe sex we should be more broad and actually tell them of ways to have sex without risking a child's life[/quote]

Its ironic you say that then later say you think marijuana should be illegal. Teens arent thinking twice about smoking so why not us just educate them on using safer bongs? Caught you in your own rhetoric sir. Just because something is impuslive and popular does not make it right to be condoned. Premarital sex leads to many damages and often abortion and condoms are not 100% effective. So by running abstinence programs is a great thing. Remember Jesus taught unpopular doctrine at his time. Should he have changed for the people or stuck to his Fathers will? Exactly

[quote]The war on terror has lost it's track with Iraq.[/quote]

This is an ouright lie. The state of New Jerzey has more homicides per month then the rate of combat deaths in the whole country of Iraq. FBI operative Ed Leikenhoff said Iraq is not nearly as bad as the press makes it out to be. Remember this is what people said about Germany and other countries we went into to rebuild during the world wars. Again you are a victim of the liberal media who paint a one sided picture of Iraq to further thier agenda. By the way, many of our other major wars have all been operated without us being attacked first, we must be on the offensive not wait for another 9/11. And those major wars have all had more casulties than this one. John Kerry himself fully supported getting rid of Saddam way before this election run-go watch any of his Crossfire or numerous interviews pre 2003 with him saying so from his own mouth.

[quote]Who's to say cheaters never prosper? The way things are today they could become president one day[/quote]

I agree completly, John Kerry COULD become President.


Also, Bush has crippled a majority of Al-quaida, liberated Afganistan, allowing MILLIONS of women to vote where once opressed. He even enforced nuclear inspections in Libya and increased sanctions in Iran, not to mention took out a dictator who murdered 300,000 plus of his own people.

Lets not forget Kerry's contributions, I heard because of his campaign, Nickelodean is going to start running more episodes of [u]Flipper[/u] again

Welcome to PhatMass

Krush2k2

Hail Mary

[Duc_In_Altum]

[quote]Religion is pure hype now adays.[/quote]

Interesting perspective. You should probably define what you mean by purity. As humans and descendants of Adam and Eve, our desires are never completely pure despite our greatest efforts. I strongly agree with you that many people never fully embrace their religion. That's part of that inherited natural impurity. Sad story and i wish it weren't true. Many adopt the "hype" for their personal gain or attention. With the hype, though, they still live lives that wouldn't ever claim its label. Folks may claim to belong to a religion but never adopt it's teachings or acknowledge it's authority (john Kerry). They just justify and rationalize so they may still keep the label as "Catholic" or "Protestant" or "Atheist" or whatever will deal them the best hand of social or political attention. Though many fall under those locks, that's quite a bold generalization to make about all religious and i have to say i take strong offense to it. Maybe our personal faith as humans is faulted. But the [i]faith[/i] and [i]Church[/i] we believe in as Catholics is pure and infallible. That's why we form a community, because we are weak but together, we can be more than our weaknesses.

To say that all religious are just part of the hype is a load. What about our beloved seminarians? Are they just part of the hype? Seems to me that there's little hype or vanity about becoming a Catholic priest nowadays in American society. They have so much love that they will take the jeers and spits for their faith. That's called love. Or what about the martyrs. Yes, martyrdom still happens today. People don't lay their lives down for just hype. They lay it down for what's at the heart and soul of their very being- love. Christ is love. There are so many that truely claim their faith and love what they believe. From what i see, Kerry is definately part of the religion "hype" based on what he said in his speech in ft lauderdale on octubre 25th. He has shown little regard for morality or the precepts of the Catholic Church yet he still strongly claims to be Catholic. That's where i see the "hype."

It'll be a sad day when the leader of our nation bends and molds his decisions based on what society or Mtv tells him is right, rather than what he examines through ethics and faith. I don't believe a majority vote determines morality. That's why there's an executive branch of government. I don't think that using your conscience when leading the most powerful country in the world is such a bad idea. I appreciate your honesty and humility and i know they're are some really well-educated peeps here that really teach Catholics a lot here. Though we disagree, i appreciate your openness. Either way, welcome to pm and may God's will be done.


in Christ,

-Joe

ps- Im nineteen. I'll tell you that you're absolutely right. I don't think twice about having sex. There's no need to. I choose purity in one thought flat!

Edited November 1, 2004 by Duc_In_Altum

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote]We'll I'm a loose Catholic/Deist and very liberal. On the edge of being hypocritical but not quite there yet.[/quote]

No, that is over the edge. If Deism were true, then there would be no Christ. You can't take two completely opposing positions and then try to say you are within reason. Mr. Kerry is not a very good logician, and it seems that you ascribe to his philosophy.

[quote]I support John Kerry on this election completely and I feel very confident that he is the man to get us out of the situation we are living in.[/quote]

Any president who leads the nation into any change will get us out of the situation we are living in. Certainly Kerry would do that, but he would take us from the current situation and put us in a worse one: a nation with high taxes, major class separation, virtually no sphere of influence, anti-Christian atmosphere, continued and increased funding for abortion, slowdown in medicinal development progress, gay marriages, the destruction of the family, etc.

[quote]Bush is a wack job who got his job because his media friends gave him a boost.[/quote]

The media is extremely liberal and highly favored Gore.

[quote]We live on a time where talking bad about our president only makes us unpatriotic and anti-american.[/quote]

Disrespecting your leaders is unpatriotic. Disrespecting their policies, which good reason, is not.

[quote]Many have gone to great lenghts to say that basically Jesus sponsors Bush. That right there is as low as religious people can get. I don't understand if it's just incompetence in the understanding of our Constitution or the recent religious hype that has been happening. Yes I call it hype. "Jesus is my friend" and "I'm Christian" shirts are pure propaganda. The Church, which was once respected is now becoming more and more an issue of being popular. Not only the Catholic church but many other Protestant religions. Religion is pure hype now adays.[/quote]

I'm greatly saddened to see such a biased, anti-religious argument. First of all, the Constitution does not separate Church and State. It keeps neither of them from controlling one another, but does not totally separate them. In fact, the Constitution only calls for the state not to impose on or encourage religion. We can certainly see that the Constitution is not being respected in this light.

Religious has and will always be used by people who have terrible motives, but that does not make it hype. Nor does it make those who honestly seek the Truth into fanatics. It's so easy to call people fanatics when they believe in something invisible and intangible, isn't it? The only problem: Christianity is VERY visible and tangible, and so is our God.

[quote]Back on topic, we now have a President that is capturing peoples minds with his agenda of "Christianity is the way I'll rule this country" Which to me is purely unconstitutional and that alone makes him unfit for president. A president must understand that not every citizen of this country is a Christian. He must understand that the decisions he makes must only add to the liberty of this country and not take it away.[/quote]

He must also understand that the majority rules and that the majority is Christian. He must also realize that what he knows to be true, even if he knows it by means of religion, is still true, and thus, valid in all arenas.

[quote]As citizens we have no right to forcefully project our views and beliefs unto others. It's wrong and it's as far from patriotic as anything.[/quote]

Then you're saying we don't have the right to vote?

[quote]I feel that abortion is wrong and it shouldn't be happening. But that doesn't mean I'm going to force a woman to make that decision. It's her body and her conscience at work there and I feel that any grown woman has the capacity to make her own decisions as she sees fit.[/quote]

Yeah...you're right. You know...thanks for that..I was worried about giving that five-year-old a book of matches, because obviously he doesn't realize what terrible evil he will do with it, but hey, it's he who will be doing it and it's his conscience. So what if it kills anyone else?

A woman's body is a VERY small portion of what is going on in an abortion. Don't try to give us that. Don't give me that clump of cells argument. My brother was born at two trimesters and he's a smart kid in grad school now. He got a 30 on the ACT and he's won several piano, speech, and acting awards. Clump of cells? I think not.

[quote]Instead of focusing on "abstinence" and why not to have sex like Bush has we should FACE THE FACTS. Teens are not thinking twice about having sex and instead of making it impossible to have safe sex we should be more broad and actually tell them of ways to have sex without risking a child's life.[/quote]

How about we try abstinence before discounting it? How about we limit the media and stop bombarding teens with sex? How about we stop trying to pass laws that make them want to have sex? How about we stop passing laws that minimize the common view of sex and make it appear like garbage instead of the sacred thing it is?

Simple math will show you that increasing contraceptive availabililty will actually increase the number of STDs and "unwanted pregnancies."

[quote]The war on terror has lost it's track with Iraq. Osama Bin Laden is still alive and well. Many Pro-bush people are coming out to say that Osama endorses Kerry which is very stupid and naive. Osama attacked us because of our policy. Our policy which has been around before clinton and during the Bush Sr. era when we supported Iraq and then switched to sponsor the Christian country of Israel. We are not fighting a country or a group of citizens. These Muslims are fighting for their religion and views and they will stop at nothing, just like Christians would to defend it.[/quote]

You are ignorant of history and geography. Please research your positions.

[quote]Bush has made a mockery of our once respected country by the acts he has commited. He favors the rich instead of helping the ones who need it more and has gone as far as to prohibiting liberty by trying to ban gay marriage-which has nothing to do with it's religious counterpart.[/quote]

The president's financial policies favor everyone equally. The make the rich richer and they make the poor richer. Unfortunately, they also take some time to see.

Banning gay marriage is a protection of the family from the assault of secularism. Homosexuals have no intrinsic right to marry persons of the same sex, nor is their claim to have such a right supported by the observable laws of nature.

[quote]And for the final note Republicans are known to run dirty politics. Bush has had his people focusing on anything but the issues and is running the worst smear campaign ever.[/quote]

That's just biased and completely uninformed. Mr. Kerry and his wife have both ceaselessly attacked the president's character, intentions, and policies. They have attacked it all. To say that the president has done nothing the right way is not only blind, it's bad campaigning. Mr. Kerry has consistently attacked the president, and his attacks have been the only thing he's been consistent on.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote]As citizens we have no right to forcefully project our views and beliefs unto others.[/quote]

Isn't this what laws are all about? If a senator doesn't have the right to defend life itself, why should he have the right to say I need to pay more taxes?

BTW, that was the first pro-Kerry argument without any negativity towards Bush I've ever read. You're so effective that you only have to mention Kerry's name twice in your wholehearted endorsement of this wonderful man.

[heyyoimjohnny]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Nov 1 2004, 03:17 PM']
BTW, that was the first pro-Kerry argument without any negativity towards Bush I've ever read.[/quote]
Lol.

Edited November 1, 2004 by heyyoimjohnny

[StColette]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Nov 1 2004, 10:50 AM'] I could type out a long post ranting about Kerry, but I'll let you keep the [b]Idiot[/b] award. [/quote]
Dallas, hun play nice

Welcome to Phatmass though I don't share your views I accept you into the Pham just as I would accept anyone else.

Edited November 1, 2004 by StColette

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote]I feel that abortion is wrong and it shouldn't be happening. But that doesn't mean I'm going to force a woman to make that decision. It's her body and her conscience at work there and I feel that any grown woman has the capacity to make her own decisions as she sees fit. [/quote]
It is a child. Beware of degrading a human person into a decision.
[quote]Instead of focusing on "abstinence" and why not to have sex like Bush has we should FACE THE FACTS. Teens are not thinking twice about having sex and instead of making it impossible to have safe sex we should be more broad and actually tell them of ways to have sex without risking a child's life.[/quote]
The only safe teenage sex is no sex. The consequences of it go beyond the physical.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Nov 1 2004, 05:17 PM']
Isn't this what laws are all about? If a senator doesn't have the right to defend life itself, why should he have the right to say I need to pay more taxes?

BTW, that was the first pro-Kerry argument without any negativity towards Bush I've ever read. You're so effective that you only have to mention Kerry's name twice in your wholehearted endorsement of this wonderful man. [/quote]
Interesting I see it as a total endorsement of President Bush.

[SirMyztiq]

Oh, just what I expected.

Full blown Catholics rallying at the site of somebody that doesn't see the way they do. I even had a guy call me an idiot. What else can you do when you know you're wrong.


First off the Constitution was set up to put a wall between religion and government. Krush you say that there are people keeping the president in check, If I'm not mistaken the majority of the people who are supposed to be keeping the president in check SUPPORT him and are Republicans.

On the media it can go both ways. The media is no longer a liable source of information because they compete with each other in order to get the latest news story or Government report and some, like Fox, like to honor the President and don't show any of the negative side of him. Tim Russert has been the go to guy for the Bush Administration ever since there were acussations of Russert wearing a Bush pin. Example, he got a rare interview with the President(whos only done 12 solo press conferences compared to 50 and above that other presidents have) Russert could of handled him and hung him to dry but he didn't and even conservative Peggy Noonan saw the president neverous, tired and unsure of himself.

That is the boost the media gives Bush. They don't ask the questions that would make him "scowl"

You all go on and on about how immoral this country would be if Kerry was president. Plain stupid. Immoral I would call the destruction of our national forest that Bush has allowed to be destroyed and If I'm not mistaking this is God's trees were cutting down. Immoral I would call the lie and rush to war that has caused thousands of deaths when there was no need to. Immoral I would call the high divorce rate among married coupled. Immoral I would call the Vatican allowing priest to move out of a country in which they have committed a crime-which is mostly sexual assault. That is immorality.

You have no basis or proof about when a baby is alive. It's a view point that is different among us all. Not every woman is Christian. Not Every woman believes what you believe. And I if you think that enforcing your religious view makes this world more holy then maybe I'm not living on the same planet as you.

When you vote you don't FORCE your believes unto others. In Bush's case we have a handful of religious figures influencing his every move and aspect and he follows in order to keep his conservative base happy. He has the backing of the Senate and HOR and he is openly FORCING his believes unto the people he is ruling.

Raphael that was a purely hypothetical statement which had no cause or reason but to confuse the stupid and I guess it worked on you.

Kerry isn't a "flip-flopper" and sadly that is what Bush wants you to believe. He voted against the troops? Nope. He voted against the multi-million contract that was going to Halliburton-Cheney's old company. He voted against and for the war. Nope. He voted to give the president permission to go to war if necessary and Bush misused that right.

In the year 2000 Bush, as the Governor of Texas oppossed using our army to nation building. Which is what he is doing now. He also stated that he didn't believe that America should go around the world telling others that if we do it want way you should. He went as far as to say that if we do something of that sort he would be seen as an arrogant nation and that is just what happened.

Krush you did not catch me on my "own rhetoric" I opposse marijuana because we don't need another drug in the market that has the same effects as alcohol. Also we do have "anti-drug" ads and programs that have steered many kids from even trying the stuff.

Sex is completely different. I'm not going into the Pre-marital sex bull carp because that is just another religious view taking effect and making a judgement that religioun shouldn't interfere with. Sex is going on among teens and at a very rampant pace. Abstinence programs AREN'T working and that only leads to more unsafe sex and more unwanted babies. Which would only result in more women wanting to get abortions but can't because laws almost make it impossible.

To ban abortion would only lead us back to the 50's were women were having even more dangerous and life threatening abortions. We should never ban a woman from easily having access to an abortion in a safe manner.


Krush did you know that more people live in the US that the amount of soldiers that have died in Iraq!? Interesting huh! Sadly, they have nothing to do with each other and that is the way your post is. You compare apples and oranges. In NJ these people have to face the law! In iraq you can't kill a car that exploded in front of your base. There was no need for those dead soldiers period. I agree stop abortion so that way whenever a president feels the need to prove something we should have plenty of people to send!

You speak of Afghanistan women being allowed to vote in that corrupted filled election. Did you see the way they were dressed? Does that seem very great and free to you? I didn't think so. We aren't fighting "freedom haters" we are fighting an established system of beliefs and views that we can't change without wiping them all out! A la Nazi. On the other hand you know the last person to use "pre-emptive" war was Hitler?

Religion is a FAD and I stand by it. Mel Gibson's movie the sudden flury of the religious people some how gaining greater power because of a popularity contest.

Edited November 2, 2004 by SirMyztiq

[XIX]

You still haven't given me any information regarding Kerry. Why is Kerry "the man," as you say? Only because Bush is as horrible as you say he is?

[Brother Adam]

Catholicism has been around for 2,000 years son. It is no "fad". It has seen kindgoms rise and fall and has lasted longer than any civilization in history. Our faith is not centered around a film.

I like how our pastor cut it down for us. "Abortion is murder. You may not cast a vote for someone who so openly advocates the murder of innocent children."

Kerry through his policies openly participates in putting a bullet in the head of 4,000 children a day. This is sick. Anyone who could vote for a man who has voted for partial birth abortion 6 times is sick.