What I Saw At Mass This Evening

[Anna]

And I cry again, just reading about it. :(

[cmotherofpirl]

I always sat with my kids in the back of the church, so if they misbehaved we could go out the back door quietly. When they were little I nursed them if they fussed. When they were bigger they knew if the misbehaved in church they would be punished at home. So they usually read their "God books" and sat in the pew.

If someone had complained to me like your idiot did, I probably would have gone to the priest after Mass and ask if he welcomes children or not to his Masses. Most priests are much nicer than the greeters and ushers.

Ignorant people need to reported.

Some of those people act like the Church is their own private property.

Edited October 5, 2003 by cmotherofpirl

[Anna]

I often sat in the back with my family, as well...but there are lots of misbehaving peeps in the back for that same reason, and not all of them are children!

I had sat up front on that occasion, to say my Penance, as is just my custom, I guess! In the meanwhile, folks began entering to prepare for Anticipated Mass.

So many people rushing back and forth, and talking out loud...My little guys at least were very quiet, but active.

Can you believe that I later learned she has been stirring things up regarding me and my children with whoever would listen for months before she ever approached me!!! She said she had seen one get out of his pew once during a First Friday Adoration, and that he had toddled up to the St. Joseph altar. When he looked back at me, I gave him a look of disapproval, and he "ran" all the way back to the pew (where I sat or knelt with his twin and other little ones). She said that was most disrespectful.

Ever since that, she went about complaining about me, until there was a posse of disgruntled old folks, waiting for my kids to make a wrong move in church!

She pointed out my twins figitting up front to the priest, who was in the back, greeting parishoners with her. He told me later that he thought she was going to offer me some help with the little guys! So he gave her permission to come speak with me.

To make matters worse, she phoned me the following Monday to tell me that she was sorry if she had offended me, but I had it coming, cuz I don't control my kids, and in her day, children were seen and not heard...etc. She told me that Father had sent her up there to speak with me. And, that's when she detailed the Adoration story.

I later was told from another source that my friend had been present during a conversation where the Greeter was complaining about my kids, and my friend had responded, "Isn't life beautiful? Aren't those children just wonnnnnnderful gifts from God? How she and your parish have been blessed!"

But I can tell you that this Greeter sewed a lot of discord between people who I've never meant to harm in any way, and my children. I don't even really know this Greeter very personally...we've just attended a couple of the same parish workshops and such. She was very outspoken and opinionated at them, but being single, healthy, and well-to-do, she is involved in everything in our parish. She has the freedom and wherewithall to do so.

I was able to tell her, however, that the job of a Greeter should be to make people feel welcome. Instead, she presents herself as the Pew Police.

I've since learned that she's done same to other large families, (and they sit in the back!)

Maybe y'all could pray for her, cuz... I don't ...can't. ............won't? :huh:

Edited October 5, 2003 by Anna

[FreeSoul]

I think it's a blessing to have antsy spirited bawling children in Church. I love to hear them cry. It makes me remember when I was six and antsy...and trying to fidget, but I loved God...so it was o.k. because I grew in my own time.

My mother and I were in Church once (I was a teenager by then) and the priest was reminding parents to try and keep their children quiet..he was being pretty testy...my mom got SO mad, she was like...you have kids and THEN tell me about keeping them quiet...

Sometimes, it's not about the discipline...but just letting children be around the sacrament...let them be with Jesus in their own whiny, antsy, flip-through-the-hymnal, not paying attention way...

It may be a little harder to consentrate, but then again, it allows us to remember that the Church is for all..Perhaps for the toddlers they can do what my grandmother did...give us lifesavers. we'd smell of elderberries on them and shut right up...give us a little book and let us do our own thing...and if once and a while we end up singing ...then so what? Then again, I WAS a perfect little angel....lol :rolleyes:

[Norseman82]

One time during the sign of peace I told a lady with some particularly unruly little ones "Peace be with you.....you need it!" She laughed and one of the kids asked "What did he mean by it?" and she explained to them I was referring to their unruliness.

Last week at 9:30 AM mass, there was one particularly unruly kid (about 3 or 4 years old, I would guess) who was running up and down the side and cross aisle and I was wondering "Where are the parents??". Finally, the father walked down the side aisle and the kid came back to him, but then proceeded to remove the kneeler pads from the kneelers at one of the side altars - right under the gazeful eyes of the father! I was about ready to call the usher (keep in mind this was going on through a good portion of the mass including the consecration) when finally the father put the kneeler pads back on the kneelers.

Of course, what drives me up the wall is when the grown adults talk through the homily making it hard for me to hear.

[ironmonk]

I think it's a blessing to have antsy spirited bawling children in Church. I love to hear them cry. It makes me remember when I was six and antsy...and trying to fidget, but I loved God...so it was o.k. because I grew in my own time.

My mother and I were in Church once (I was a teenager by then) and the priest was reminding parents to try and keep their children quiet..he was being pretty testy...my mom got SO mad, she was like...you have kids and THEN tell me about keeping them quiet...

Sometimes, it's not about the discipline...but just letting children be around the sacrament...let them be with Jesus in their own whiny, antsy, flip-through-the-hymnal, not paying attention way...

It may be a little harder to consentrate, but then again, it allows us to remember that the Church is for all..Perhaps for the toddlers they can do what my grandmother did...give us lifesavers. we'd smell of elderberries on them and shut right up...give us a little book and let us do our own thing...and if once and a while we end up singing ...then so what? Then again, I WAS a perfect little angel....lol 

That's what the crying rooms are for.

We don't know what the usher said to the lady. Leaving in the middle of the mass because of it is wrong... if the usher was in the wrong, she should have moved, then taken it up with the Priest afterward... not stormed out of the Mass.

Her anger was greater than her love for Christ at that time.

I can understand someone getting mad at the usher for being mean and going to another parish... but not leaving in the middle of the Mass.

-ironmonk

[foundsheep]

This is a toughy for me. I have a 5 year old that is very active. Its hard not to lose patience when at church. But as someone put it to me onetime albeit its a bit much," Dont leave cause your child is actin up,thats just what the devil wants". Ever since I just try to correct him without bringing too much attention.

PS: another good thing is take em too the earliest mass. I find that they are not as active when they have just woken up(lol), a later mass and they are running wild.

[Anna]

IronMonk,

Soon you will learn that "cry rooms" are exactly as (if not worse than) Kilroy the Ninja described them.

A parent cannot participate in the Mass in a "cry room" any more than you could enjoy an EWTN program in the middle of day care center.

But you will learn this soon enough.

My parish doesn't have a cry room, thank the Lord. I've sat through plenty of Masses in various cry rooms, though, and they are not conducive to worship.

Also, don't assume that the Mother stormed out in anger. She may have felt overwhelmed with shock, pain, shame and embarassment, and pain beyond measure that her child was being singled out as unwelcome. MotherLove is a powerful thing, and the thought that your child is being rejected by your parish hurts like hell! She may have been too emotionally distraught to remain, without herself bawling.

Whatever her reason for leaving, I'm sure that that family had gone to Church with the intention of attending Mass and experiencing Christ's love. They had made the effort. And then were probably sweating bullets trying to participate with their child misbehaving.

People who don't really have a firm grasp on their Faith do attend for that "sense of unity and community" that we all keep hearing about, but when it gets right down to it, just one person hyped up with his own sense of self importance within his "ministry" can cause much harm to the Body of Christ by overstepping his boundaries of authority and of appropriate conduct.

There's a big difference between a child being disruptive at Mass, and an usher. And the usher did great harm by strolling up to the couple during the Holy Sacrifice. He probably created just as much or more of a distraction as/than the child. Too bad that the usher hadn't waited long enough to hear today's Gospel, ay????? Let the little children come unto me, and forbid them not?!!

We were all once bawling babies, and fidgeting children. We need to be a bit more patient. We need to remember that every baptized baby and little child are also members of the Body of Christ and therefore, receive some grace just being there.

Hopefully, that family sought another Mass elsewhere. Hopefully, they haven't left the Church, seeking some other denomination where they could feel all warm and fuzzy, but not have the sacraments which Christ instituted.

I cannot see how a family could remain in their pew as if nothing had happened after receiving a rebuke from the usher.

Eh, well, I always agree with most everything you say (as you know :wub: ) but just thought I'd share a different perspective with you on this one.

When I left Mass, (Mass hadn't begun yet) but I couldn't have sat with the twins through the whole Mass without bursting into tears. Maybe this young mom felt the same way.

[littleflower+JMJ]

aww anna that was just horrible what that awful usher did.

they had no rigth whatsoever!!

your a great mom and kids will be kids. and when someone has trouble remembering that, its them who have a problem not you.

some ppl like making others feel miserable.

dont worry! God's house is made for everyone, especially the children.

God is the one who blest you with those beautiful children.

i know He would love to have them in his house, even if thier going to behave as children do.

and theres nothing wrong with that!

:wub: :wub: :wub:

"families that pray together, stay together"--fr. peyton

[ironmonk]

Anna,

I understand, and agree with you.

Well, the woman whispered to her husband, "We're leaving!" and they all got up and walked out of the Church.

When Dave wrote the above, I pictured a lady leaving in anger. I know what you mean by not knowing the faith enough... my whole point is that the lady was wrong for leaving. We have no idea what the usher said... he could have been wrong... but two wrongs don't make a right.

God Bless, Love in Chirst, Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I agree that if they do leave the Catholic Church, they have a severe lack of true faith.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Thank you Anna and jasJis and cmom - you've all given me some things to think about. Going to church in shifts is almost not an option since our parish is semi-across town for us and gas is an issue, and like I said, the cry room is more like a romper room. And IronMonk - I challenge you to sit in that environment and have a meaningful celebration of the mass without once growing angry at indifferent parents or being distracted by six year olds chasing their three year old siblings.

Cry rooms were supposed to be just that - cry rooms. They were supposed to be rooms where the parents could run a crying child to so that mass would not be more disrupted. Once the child was calmed, the idea was that the parent and child could return to the congregation in the sanctuary. These days we might as well check our children in at the door and leave someone in there to watch them ala a daycare.

But the original issue was whether or not the usher was in the right. We may never know if we don't, for sure, know exactly what the usher said and how he said it. Tone is everything in these situations.

I truly doubt that family left the Catholic church over it. More than likely they chose another church (like Anna) or just went home.

Pray for them, the usher, the greeter an Anna's church, the priests who can't be bothered and for us as we try to find a solution to this problem.

[jessinoelw]

We have a very wiggly toddler (he'll be 2 in January). We tried the cry room. The kids in there seem to all be sleeping (why are they in there then???), or they're old enough to where they ought to have been disciplined enough to sit in the pews. We tried just sitting in the pews and taking him out when he starts fussing. My husband likes to get to church early. Dominic starts fussing within 30 seconds of my sitting down. Then we tried pacing with him at the back of the church, but he's still too loud. So we went out to the foyer and people standing back there gave us "the look", so that leaves us sitting in folding chairs on the lawn watching Mass on the closed circuit TV where Dom thinks it's time to play and run around (because that's what all the other kids outside are doing).

Unless that child was being really loud in a small area, I think the usher was wrong to ask them to move. My understanding is that Catholics believe that the little ones are to go to Mass with the family. How else are they supposed to learn?

All the hating the noise of crying children comments reflect our culture's negative view of children. The Church is VERY pro-child. Children are a blessing. Why not send up a prayer of thanksgiving that those folks were open to life. I think it's what St. Therese would do. B)

--Jessica

[BLAZEr]

When I was a babe, my mom nursed me if I got fussy, but I was a pretty quiet baby, I'm told. When I got older, my mom used to set next to me with her arms crossed for "easy pinching" access. I wasn't even allowed to turn my head around! And we sat in the first row every time. Also, the first time I misbehaved my dad took me outside gave me three quick spankings and said 'Stop crying we're going back inside now and if you misbehave again we'll find a good cross for you." At that age I thought Jesus was up there as an example for bad little boys! LOL . . . as I got older I slept (one priest even commented on the fact that he could tell how good his sermon was by how fast I fell asleep!) . . .

Now, I sit in the front row and I sit with some kids (whose parents are in the choir) and they are pretty well behaved, but I'm much more tolerant than my folks were! And they aren't my kids!

God bless . . .

[BLAZEr]

But as someone put it to me onetime albeit its a bit much," Dont leave cause your child is actin up,thats just what the devil wants". Ever since I just try to correct him without bringing too much attention.

You know, I was at Mass once and this baby started wailing . . . the priest was one of these Charismatic guys and he went right up to the Mom and the Child and said "Satan is trying to distract you all from listening to my sermon." He proceeded to pray over the baby and command the demons to leave the child be.

I kid you not, that baby immediately fell silent and went to sleep. It was probably one of the coolest things ever happen at mass (aside from the most extraordinary thing that happens at every Mass when ordinary bread and wine become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus! WHOAH JESUS!)

Anyway, your point reminded me of it. Now I will wait patiently for the next 20 posts telling me how many rubrics this priest broke . . . (I like the rubrics, I like the rubrics to be followed, I'm just making a joke. You rubricians are so fussy!)