New Age on the March

[Ricky2]

What has happened in Europe is happening in America. If Kerry wins the pace will quicken. Can America survive as a secular culture? Do we really need a belief in a higher moral authority or will we do just as well under a system that considers everything to be "relative"?



New constitution ignores Europe's Christian history

By Peggy Polk
Religion News Service


VATICAN CITY — When European Union leaders gather in Rome to sign their new constitution today, they will rebuff Pope John Paul II and his effort to acknowledge Christianity in the historic document.
The Roman Catholic pontiff has often voiced concern about Europe's increasingly secular society. In the signing of a constitution that does not acknowledge Europe's religious history, the Vatican sees proof that the EU is distancing itself from Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular.

The drafters of the constitution have made it clear for months that they would ignore the pope's tireless 2-1/2-year campaign for explicit Christian recognition in the constitution's preamble. The pope's opponents, with France, Belgium and Finland in the forefront, argued that a reference to Christianity would have violated the principle of church-state separation. The charter, which still must be ratified by all 25 members of the enlarged EU to take effect, does uphold religious freedom, however.

Nonetheless, John Paul is clearly upset.

"You don't cut off the roots from which you have grown," the pope said with unusual bitterness when forced to acknowledge defeat last June.

Earlier this week came a second blow.

Opposition within the European Parliament blocked confirmation of an Italian candidate for commissioner of justice and security who was criticized for his conservative views on homosexuality and marriage, which mirror church doctrine.

Rocco Buttiglione, a center-right politician and academic, called homosexuality "a sin," although not a crime, and upheld marriage as an institution that existed for women to have children and be protected by their husbands.

Compounding the offense to the Vatican, Buttiglione has a warm acquaintance with the pope.

As liberals mounted opposition to Buttiglione's candidacy, Cardinal Renato Raffaele Martino, the Vatican's longtime permanent observer at the United Nations who is now president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, exploded. He told a Vatican news conference Oct. 18 that Christians in general and the Catholic Church in particular face "a new holy Inquisition full of money and arrogance."

"Everything goes, from intimidation to public dishonor, as long as it serves to silence their voices," he said.





Yesterday, the eve of the signing ceremony, the pope met at the Vatican with another Italian politician for whom he has affection, retiring EU Commission President Romano Prodi, a leader of Italy's center-left.

John Paul took the opportunity to make his own feelings about the EU known.

Those feelings are ambivalent. During the Cold War, the Polish-born pontiff spoke of his hope for the day when Europe would once more "breathe with both its lungs," East with West, and the Vatican assured Ukraine only Wednesday that it supports the "return of all the countries of the East to the bosom of the great European family."

"The Holy See favored the formation of the European Union even before it had a juridical structure and then followed its various stages with active interest," John Paul said in his welcome to Prodi.

But, the pope said, the Vatican also has felt the duty "to openly express the just expectations of a great number of Christian citizens of Europe."

"For this reason, the Holy See has reminded everyone how Christianity, in its various expressions, contributed to the formation of a common conscience of the European peoples and gave a great contribution to molding their civilization," he said.

"Recognized or not in official documents, it is an undeniable fact that no history will be able to forget," the pope said.

John Paul made a more guarded reference to the Buttiglione controversy, which has forced Prodi's successor, José Manuel Barroso of Portugal, to delay a vote on his own appointment and that of the entire new European Commission. Barroso is under pressure to withdraw Buttiglione's nomination.

"I express the hope that the difficulties arising in recent days regarding the new commission may find a solution of reciprocal respect in the spirit of harmony between all the requests involved," he said.

Because of the effects that Parkinson's disease has had on his ability to speak clearly, the 84-year-old pope did not go through the formality of reading the message.


Copyright © 2004 The Seattle Times Company

[Guest T-Bone]

[thessalonian]

This is what I think of separation of Church and state.


Psalms 33:12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD,
The people whom He has chosen for His own inheritance.

This secularization of the world ain't good folks.

God bless

[Balthazor]

The secularization of the EU may not be only because the western world is obsessed with money and power and the individual.....even though it really is.

There could also be another reason, Mainly the growing muslim population in Europe. The EU may not want to alienate them and purposly left out Christianity because of this....

[Ricky2]

Perhaps, but isn't that what the PC of the secular New Age is all about? We might offend the sensativities of others by admitting our origin was based on a different religious system - so better not to mention it. Do you think the Muslim world will ever be as sensative to our feelings? Do you think the growing Muslim population in Europe will keep that sensativity if/when they become the dominant culture in Europe?

[Balthazor]

To be honest no I don't think that the incoming muslims would grant this permissiveness if they were the dominant culture.

This is a very good point you bring up by the way. Since most of Europe is not growing by native birth rate, it is growing though the influx of foreigners......and most of them are Muslim. Needless to say if this trend continues it is not unlikely that muslims will become a real force in Europe.

Especially if Turkey is ever accepted into the EU.....which probably won't happen in the near future, but Turkey is pushing for it.


Europeans are reacting in different ways......everything from banning headscarves in France and in Italy, to trying to nip conflict in the bud by training their own European clerics.

As one of my close friends says, people think that civil rights mean the right to trample all over other people's civil rights.

Let us hope the world regains common sense soon......being fair to other people and other cultures should not mean forfeiting your own culture.

Balthazor

[Socrates]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Oct 29 2004, 03:31 PM'] The secularization of the EU may not be only because the western world is obsessed with money and power and the individual.....even though it really is.

There could also be another reason, Mainly the growing muslim population in Europe. The EU may not want to alienate them and purposly left out Christianity because of this.... [/quote]
The modern West, with its PC attitudes, is signing its own death warrant!
The Muslims care nothing about "senstitivity" and "tolerance." Europe is committing suicide with its secularist PC principles, and plumitting native birthrates.

This, combined with a rapidly growing immigrant Muslim poplulation ,will ensure that the Europe of the future will be Islamic.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 30 2004, 09:01 PM'] The modern West, with its PC attitudes, is signing its own death warrant!
The Muslims care nothing about "senstitivity" and "tolerance." Europe is committing suicide with its secularist PC principles, and plumitting native birthrates.

This, combined with a rapidly growing immigrant Muslim poplulation ,will ensure that the Europe of the future will be Islamic. [/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly.

The next twenty years or so, should be rather intersting.


Crousant any one?

[Balthazor]

Kilroy..You rock!!

What an appropriate response,you asked if anyone want a croissant?
WELL.....
Centuries ago, Budapest (or possibly Vienna) was being besieged by the Turks. A group of bakers heard the sound of the Turks tunnelling under the walls, and alerted the army. As a reward, they were allowed to bake pastries in the shape of the Islamic crescent symbol....

Sorry for getting off the topic....but I almost fell off my chair when you responded to the current Islamic invasion in such a way.

Perhaps we should learn a story from the Hungarian bakers and be vigilant to what is tunneling under our walls...

Balthazor

[Quietfire]

I think what troubles me the most here is yes, Europe is signing their own death warrant in particular since in signing their constitution and rebuffing Christianity as their history, are they not denying the Lord in a very real sense?

I am troubled also by the fact that America is following suit, part and parcel.
Be afraid.....
Be very afraid.


Peace.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

yes, I apologize for my incorrect spelling.... I was very tired and being rushed out the door at the time...


But I believe you and Quietfire have hit it on the head quite nicely - we must be ever vigilant.