Kerry

[qfnol31]

[quote name='J.R.D' date='Oct 30 2004, 12:40 PM'] Kerry is a democrat and they dont help themselves like republicans do [/quote]
Clinton is a Democrat. He helped himself to stuff that you said Democrats don't. Republicans seem to understand one thing, the economy is (and was set up) to be whatever they made it to be.

[J.R.D]

not like bush as ... were in a billon or trillion defaset dude

[qfnol31]

Name one way that was his fault. War helps create jobs, not destroy them.

[qfnol31]

Actually, start a new thread for that please. I like the minimum wage talk we were having, and would like to go back there in this thread.

[J.R.D]

ok back to minimum wage

[Ricky2]

Lets get specific. Can any one name the type of jobs currently paying minumum wage and who normally takes those jobs and for how long? I can't think of any around here - even the fast food restaurants start a couple of bucks higher. If anyone around here is making min. wage they are probably illegal aliens making 5 times more than they could in the countries they are from, or handicaped workers getting other subsidies besides their salaries.
Ricky2

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='J.R.D' date='Oct 30 2004, 01:23 PM'] thedude It's true there IS NO SUCH THING AS A POOR REPUBLICAN [/quote]
I'm sorry, but that is a rude, ignorant, and untrue stereotypical statement. I know people who would say this about Democrats and they are equally ridiculous.
[quote]minumum wage dose not send jobs overseas .... what about the Jobs that went a Year after bush was in office?[/quote]
Companies are forced to pay people more money and their profit decreases. Instead of raising prices and commiting corporate suicide they send the jobs elsewhere where the cost of production (minimum wage, ect.) is lower. Presidents aren't the reason for these problems. The president isn't all-powerful. He has a lot less control over the conomy that you would think. The problem lies with the consumer, who is usually to tight to buy American-made. There is simply more money in sending a job overseas. We can't blame politicians.

[qfnol31]

The thing about raising minimum wage is that most people [i]don't[/i] pay that little. Some do, yes, but most don't. However, $7.00 is a huge leap from what many places do pay! I don't mind making $5.25 an hour. I hate more taxes added onto that, which I think is very common for the Democratic party.

[J.R.D]

The taxes they get are for the poor

[Azriel]

Go back and read the link I posted - not all evidence points to the fact that higher minimum wage means high unemployment.

[Azriel]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Oct 30 2004, 08:02 AM'] [url="http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_bp151"]Interesting[/url] [/quote]
quoting myself so more people get the link...including my Bro Pedro.

[qfnol31]

John, not all that money goes to the poor. We pay for Congress, the President, the ex-President, etc. Each year Congress gives themselves a higher salary too....

Azriel, I have some questions though:

[quote]"Ripple effect" wage hikes for workers earning just above the current minimum wage. Evidence shows that when the minimum wage is increased employers often raise wages for those earning above the minimum wage.[/quote]

Wouldn't this also affect the prices of products and services since companies will want to earn the money to keep up net sales?


I agree a minimum wage increase [i]could[/i] be good. However, adding almost $2.00 seems a little extreme.

According to this graph, almost 30% of the wages that are between $5.15 and $7.00 are only [i]three[/i] years, those between 16 and 19.

Another thing is why should the larger government decide the best minimum wage for all? The states should be doing it, for the costs of living in some states is higher or lower, depending on where you live. The numbers seem to support that more people make less money in the smaller states (by population): Mississippi, Arkansas, etc. I bet there's a good reason for this.

[i]Modest minimum wage increases do not result in job loss.[/i] The increase proposed right now isn't very modest (maybe the $6.25 is).

I personally think they mix arguments and so come to false conclusions...but that's just me.

[Norseman82]

First of all, I agree with the statements by T-bone regarding making foreign nations have minimum wage laws similar to ours and jasjis regarding minimum wage should only be for entry-level and one needs to move on. And PedroX, I may sound heartless, but sometimes the example of someone who is paying the consequences of mistake earlier in life can serve as a deterrent for others to NOT make the same mistake (this I'm sure is a separate discussion).

That being said, I will address the qestion at hand and offer a potential solution. I understand how raising the minimum wage has the potential to cause prices to go up. However, if I were in a policymaking position, I would tie the raising of the minimum wage to tax cuts for corporations and small businesses (rather than high-income individuals) in order to offset the increased cost of doing business. Also, we must combat lawsuit abuse. Another thing is to look at weird regulations that hamper businesses. Some that come to mind are forcing people who have displays at a trade show to pay someone big $$$ just to plug in a cord into an outlet and the OSHA documentation on water as a hazardous substance. In my own job, I've been told that I could not change the font on a form to resolve a problem beacuse we could get into trouble with state insurance regulators. And don't even get me started on the Sarbannes-Oxley law, which although it was passed to combat Enron-like scandals has caused IT work to slow down to a molasses-like pace.

So, bottom line: raising the minimum wage is noble, but in order to minimize inflationary pressures it should be combined with other measures to decrease the cost of doing business.

[PedroX]

Az,

I saw the link and skimmed it. It confirmed every economics book I've read. The evidence is dicey that raising the minimum wage automatically loses jobs. Nice work on finding it and promoting it, but then you're good like that.

Norse,

Finally, some intelligent discussion on the issue, but then, you're good like that too.

I agree whole heartedly with you on some of the silly regulations that are in place (don't get me started on HIPPA again!) People fail to realize how much money it takes to comply with nonsense. This nonsense comes from both parties, and much of it could be pared down. Also, I would be fine with tying tax incentives to hiring workers. Minimum wage jobs tend to be held by people who need job training/experience and rather than more government programs to accomplish the goals why not offer tax incentives to hire them and let corporations teach them? (wow, long sentence!)

I do have a couple of questions, though...

1) If we insist that making mistakes (dropping out of high school, getting pregnant, shop lifting, etc) should be paid for by dooming someone to minimum wage jobs, what are we accomplishing?

2) Where do we expect these people to 'move on' to? Are there an infinite number of higher than minimum wages jobs out there?

Thanks again for the excellent post, Norse.

peace...