BLAZEr Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Have I STATED the Catholic church is wrong? NO! I've stated I cannot accept the teachings...God gave me free will and I have chosen the prot way. Wow, that's kinda sad. I guess you join the people at the end of the 6th Chapter of John's Gospel. And the Rich young Man? Wow! You actually don't think the church is wrong, but you reject her teachings anyway? I've never seen that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Have I STATED the Catholic church is wrong? NO! I've stated I cannot accept the teachings...God gave me free will and I have chosen the prot way. What in the world... Why then aren't you in the Catholic Church? Jesus taught one truth. Truth is not subjective to opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) Because in my heart joining the Catholic church would be commiting the unpardonable sin! "Sorry Holy Spirit...thanks for all the good times...the direction...the encouragement...I'm leaving you to find the "TRUTH" that only the Catholic church can bring...I'm turning my back on you...I'm sticking my fingers in my ears....I'm chucking out my bibles..." "Sorry Jesus...sorry God...you're just not good enough...I've found the "truth"... Although to commit the unpardonable sin, I wouldn't know I was doing it If that makes no sense I don't care! I HAVE the truth and that's enough for me. Thank you all for helping stretch my faith and plant it in firmer ground. You've been a great challenge :) Edited October 6, 2003 by Robyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolye Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 This is addressed to both protestants and Catholics. It would be bigoted of us to think that we are flawlessly right in everything we believe. We must read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal his truth to us. Get into the Word, ask God to reveal himself to you and lead you into the truth. Let God show you the truth, not other people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy316 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Robyn, why do you always make comments like "Because in my heart joining the Catholic church would be commiting the unpardonable sin!" and then add a cute little smiley?? To me, it sends the wrong message. You insult our Church (which we obviously take offense to) and then stick your tongue out at us. Disrespectful. Just disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) I'm saddened by some of these posts, but encouraged by others. Robyn, As plain as the R in your name, Catholics follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We see that the guidance of the Holy Spirit is through Scripture, direct revealation in our hearts, and through the Church. The fact that the Holy Spirit provides additional (not only) guidance via the "Chruch" is repeated throughout Scripture, both specifically and implicitly. That is what is meant by the Fullness of the Truth. You are shoving your bible in one ear, your pride in the other ear, and shutting your eyes to the Holy Spirit's guidance provided through the Chruch and others. You have Truth, but not all of it. Read Joolye's post. She isn't blinded by pride and remains open to the Spirit. You and I, as Christians, can learn from her post because it's true. You and I cannot personally know everything in a flawless manner. Catholics would add that the Catholic Church preserves flowless knowledge of the Faith, but individually we can't know it flawlessly. What is the point of Jesus establishing Apostles and giving them authority to elect and designate other leaders? Why did Paul go to the Apostles for affirmation of his ministry? Why did Paul even bother to confront Peter if we are all endowed with equal authority unto ourselves by the Holy Spirit. The Church the Jesus Christ established is a vine. Some are roots, some are grapes, some are main branches, some are twigs, and some are leaves. The Holy Spirit is the sap of the vine, and the root of the vine taps into the eternal spring of the Father. It's silly and prideful for the leaf to say it has all the sap it needs and dismiss the twig because it can't provide photosynthesis to feed the grape. Edited October 6, 2003 by jasJis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) St. Anselm called Theology, "faith seeking understanding." All of us are seeking that understanding, in one way or another, it is the faith we have a hard time with, myself included. I don't judge anyone on the board, but based upon observation alone, it seems a lot of us, again myself included, believe that we are God's gift to the Church, and it is up to us to save it from the grip of evil. Of course, the moment we come to the realization that we think we can save the Church, we have already failed in doing what God has asked us to do. Like it or not, no matter how much we teach a person theology, philosophy, and how to find God, it is never us that are responsible for that finding. Sometimes we tend to be more patient with ourselves, then we are with others. Conversion didn't happen over night for any one of us, nor should we expect it to occur to anyone else. Reflecting on your own lives, knowing where you've come from and where you are today, you should also be willing to give other people time to grow. Why hasn't anyone on this board fully converted to the Catholic Church despite all our efforts, teachings, and prayers? Perhaps, because it is God's way of teaching us humility. Humility to recognize that in the major scheme, what we say and do means very little until God sanctifies it. Perhaps God wants us to remember that it is His Church, they are His people, and that until we are willing to recognize that what we say and teach is only giving them reasons, and only when God sanctifies will those reasons truly touch their heart. Granted, I am not saying that we should stop teaching, praying, and giving reasons, rather, what I am saying is that sometimes we have to be willing to let God work in His time, and recognize that what we say may not have any bearing until years from now. As Archbishop Dolan once said, being a priest is a thankless job, I would say that applies to any Catholic in this day and age because through that thanklessness it is then and only then that we realize, it is not our will, but His Will that matters. God Bless Edited October 6, 2003 by Theologian in Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Theo and jasJis, Amen. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 God plants the seeds, we do the watering. God does the pruning when the harvest is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) "Sorry Holy Spirit...thanks for all the good times...the direction...the encouragement...I'm leaving you to find the "TRUTH" that only the Catholic church can bring...I'm turning my back on you...I'm sticking my fingers in my ears....I'm chucking out my bibles..." "Sorry Jesus...sorry God...you're just not good enough...I've found the "truth"... You see, Robyn, to us, remaining Protestant is saying, "Sorry Christ, the Church YOU founded just isn't good enough for me...Not enough fun, not enough excitement...I can't glorify myself there, where you humble YOURSELF so much to take on the appearance of Bread, just so that You can share Yourself and nourish your flock. You see, Lord, I wanna feel the breeze in my hair and dream dreams and follow my own aspirations...your Holy Spirit will be my spirit guide as I do what I please... But thanks for establishing a Church for those other slobs who aren't open to the Holy Spirit themselves " So, you see Robyn, your remarks just seem very prideful from a Catholic perspective. Jesus did not promise good times. He said, "If you love Me, pick up your cross daily, and come, follow Me." This is what we Catholics endeavor to do. I just wish you prots could quit with the sarcasm and really dialogue about the Faith. I doubt that the Holy Spirit has inspired you to post the things you've posted thus far, yet you brag all the time about being guided by him. Raven and Clover show more love, and they're guided by....Lord knows who!!! (No offense, Raven and Clover!) Edited October 6, 2003 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy316 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 You see, Robyn, to us, remaining Protestant is saying, "Sorry Christ, the Church YOU founded just isn't good enough for me...Not enough fun, not enough excitement...I can't glorify myself there, where you humble YOURSELF so much to take on the appearance of Bread, just so that You can share Yourself and nourish your flock. You see, Lord, I wanna feel the breeze in my hair and dream dreams and follow my own aspirations...your Holy Spirit will be my spirit guide as I do what I please... But thanks for establishing a Church for those other slobs who aren't open to the Holy Spirit themselves " Great post Anna...that's exactly what I'm talking about!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 St. Anselm called Theology, "faith seeking understanding." All of us are seeking that understanding, in one way or another, it is the faith we have a hard time with, myself included. I don't judge anyone on the board, but based upon observation alone, it seems a lot of us, again myself included, believe that we are God's gift to the Church, and it is up to us to save it from the grip of evil. Of course, the moment we come to the realization that we think we can save the Church, we have already failed in doing what God has asked us to do. Like it or not, no matter how much we teach a person theology, philosophy, and how to find God, it is never us that are responsible for that finding. Sometimes we tend to be more patient with ourselves, then we are with others. Conversion didn't happen over night for any one of us, nor should we expect it to occur to anyone else. Reflecting on your own lives, knowing where you've come from and where you are today, you should also be willing to give other people time to grow. Why hasn't anyone on this board fully converted to the Catholic Church despite all our efforts, teachings, and prayers? Perhaps, because it is God's way of teaching us humility. Humility to recognize that in the major scheme, what we say and do means very little until God sanctifies it. Perhaps God wants us to remember that it is His Church, they are His people, and that until we are willing to recognize that what we say and teach is only giving them reasons, and only when God sanctifies will those reasons truly touch their heart. Granted, I am not saying that we should stop teaching, praying, and giving reasons, rather, what I am saying is that sometimes we have to be willing to let God work in His time, and recognize that what we say may not have any bearing until years from now. As Archbishop Dolan once said, being a priest is a thankless job, I would say that applies to any Catholic in this day and age because through that thanklessness it is then and only then that we realize, it is not our will, but His Will that matters. God Bless Mad Props. It reminds me of being outside of an abortion clinic, and not having any turnarounds. This is an excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azriel Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 St. Anselm called Theology, "faith seeking understanding." All of us are seeking that understanding, in one way or another, it is the faith we have a hard time with, myself included. I don't judge anyone on the board, but based upon observation alone, it seems a lot of us, again myself included, believe that we are God's gift to the Church, and it is up to us to save it from the grip of evil. Of course, the moment we come to the realization that we think we can save the Church, we have already failed in doing what God has asked us to do. Like it or not, no matter how much we teach a person theology, philosophy, and how to find God, it is never us that are responsible for that finding. Sometimes we tend to be more patient with ourselves, then we are with others. Conversion didn't happen over night for any one of us, nor should we expect it to occur to anyone else. Reflecting on your own lives, knowing where you've come from and where you are today, you should also be willing to give other people time to grow. Why hasn't anyone on this board fully converted to the Catholic Church despite all our efforts, teachings, and prayers? Perhaps, because it is God's way of teaching us humility. Humility to recognize that in the major scheme, what we say and do means very little until God sanctifies it. Perhaps God wants us to remember that it is His Church, they are His people, and that until we are willing to recognize that what we say and teach is only giving them reasons, and only when God sanctifies will those reasons truly touch their heart. Granted, I am not saying that we should stop teaching, praying, and giving reasons, rather, what I am saying is that sometimes we have to be willing to let God work in His time, and recognize that what we say may not have any bearing until years from now. As Archbishop Dolan once said, being a priest is a thankless job, I would say that applies to any Catholic in this day and age because through that thanklessness it is then and only then that we realize, it is not our will, but His Will that matters. God Bless :wub: Dude, that's amesome. But, don't let it go to your head. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) Thank you. I didn't notice before, but the some of the second paragraph was borrowed from Archbishop Dolan's chapter on faith in his book, "Priests for the Third Millenium." The other stuff is, I am convinced, from the Holy Spirit, because lately my own writing hasn't been flowing as smoothly. Thank you again and thank God He gave me enough insight to write what I could. God Bless Edited October 6, 2003 by Theologian in Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) You see, Robyn, to us, remaining Protestant is saying, "Sorry Christ, the Church YOU founded just isn't good enough for me...Not enough fun, not enough excitement...I can't glorify myself there, where you humble YOURSELF so much to take on the appearance of Bread, just so that You can share Yourself and nourish your flock. You see, Lord, I wanna feel the breeze in my hair and dream dreams and follow my own aspirations...your Holy Spirit will be my spirit guide as I do what I please... But thanks for establishing a Church for those other slobs who aren't open to the Holy Spirit themselves " So, you see Robyn, your remarks just seem very prideful from a Catholic perspective. Jesus did not promise good times. He said, "If you love Me, pick up your cross daily, and come, follow Me." This is what we Catholics endeavor to do. I just wish you prots could quit with the sarcasm and really dialogue about the Faith. I doubt that the Holy Spirit has inspired you to post the things you've posted thus far, yet you brag all the time about being guided by him. Raven and Clover show more love, and they're guided by....Lord knows who!!! (No offense, Raven and Clover!) Exactly Anna, exactly. Raven and Clover show more love, and they are pagan! Edited October 6, 2003 by Paladin D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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