Lil Red Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Sorry, just thinking out loud to myself. What is the point of debate? I know that I will never "convert" another person by my words...but always by my actions (for better or worse). I know that by showing another person the life I lead (again for better or worse) will win them over more than the words that I spew. A good example...my friend was talking to me about how she has a hard time getting her husband (who is atheist) to talk about religion, and realize why it is important to her, and why it is important to her to have their baby (she's pregnant) baptized. I asked her how much she prays at home, goes to church, prays the rosary, etc. in their home, where he can see (not that I'm saying she should do it [u]just[/u] so that he can see) that it is important to her. Her answer, "Yeah, well, I know that I need to do that more." My point was that he will understand that it is important to her if he sees her doing these things on a consistent basis. In other words, showing by actions, not by just talking about it. Thoughts are appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 somebody once said, "you are the Bible someone is reading today. you could be the only encounter someone has with a Christian." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 i agree w/ you that our actions speak louder then our words. however, i also think that this does not make debate a futile endeavor. we must keep ourselves open to the possibility of God working through us to enact the conversion of another person. Bro Adam was converted in such a way in fact, many are. however, a warming of the heart of the individual by the Holy Spirit often precludes our words. our endeavors to defend and debate may at times seem hopeless b/c of the little results we see. but, we cannot close the door to God doing great things w/ our meager attempts. plus, it is our responsibility as Confirmed Catholics to defend the Church if we are able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 okay...then what is the point of internet debate? i agree that a respectful conversation can lead you to gently correct someone's impression...i guess sometimes i get discouraged by the lack of charity and respectfulness of human dignity around here (on both sides). in the example of my friend...she's Catholic...believes in contraception, abortion in some cases, etc...have I been telling her that she's wrong, that she will burn in hell, that she shouldn't be Catholic? Of course not, because she's my dear friend that I care about. I've been slowly telling her (using examples) of why the Church (and I, but I've been putting the spin on that subtly) believes something. i think it's been working...but there again...my actions speak louder than my words.... and of course the Holy Spirit, God, Jesus can work through any humble vessel, such as myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0RK4JP2 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I personally don't like debating with anyone, i prefer to listen to them, and them listen to me...if you get the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Many things are not debatable since they are Dogma, but most things are explainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 [quote name='Lil Red' date='Oct 28 2004, 01:22 AM'] in the example of my friend...she's Catholic...believes in contraception, abortion in some cases, etc...have I been telling her that she's wrong, that she will burn in hell, that she shouldn't be Catholic? Of course not, because she's my dear friend that I care about. I've been slowly telling her (using examples) of why the Church (and I, but I've been putting the spin on that subtly) believes something. [/quote] Red, if you love her and she truly is your friend, you need to find a way to communicate with her, in a way she'll understand and hopefully not take offense, that she IS wrong and she MIGHT burn in hell for her beliefs. That is the most loving thing you can do as her friend. I absolutely agree with you that your actions and example are paramount. But she has to know exactly what you think, or you risk not being completely honest with her. Especially if she claims to be Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat_Voluntas_Tua Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Blessed be God! I have been considering this question for many month's since before the FB Crusade...I was debating with about 10 guys on this lucas arts forum about whether or not Pornography is wrong. And I also debated many many other topic's...But the FACT is that certain thing's can not be debated...like Cmother said, Dogma is not debateable...but most definatly explainable... So I knew what the Church tought was correct, but how to let other people know that isn't easy...so you have to explain the Church's teachings and position's...And this very often is done in a futile manner if one is not careful. Informing can easily become uncharitable when one forget's the reason they are informing this person. We should inform people because we Love people...The people with whom we debate are our brothers and sisters... Internet debate aren't won...they just are. If you have your mind set on winning a debate or a converting someone through a debate then most likely the effort will be futile and you will become upset and uncharitable. Debateing is just another way or showing Love through charitable conversation. Totus Tuus, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 debates are to see who is RIGHT and who is WRONG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Oct 28 2004, 06:14 AM'] Red, if you love her and she truly is your friend, you need to find a way to communicate with her, in a way she'll understand and hopefully not take offense, that she IS wrong and she MIGHT burn in hell for her beliefs. That is the most loving thing you can do as her friend. I absolutely agree with you that your actions and example are paramount. But she has to know exactly what you think, or you risk not being completely honest with her. Especially if she claims to be Catholic. [/quote] i guess i didn't explain what i've been telling her very well. i have been slowly trying to tell her why the Church believes these things are wrong..and why I believe the Church...but i'm trying to do it so i don't push her away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 [quote name='Lil Red' date='Oct 28 2004, 11:59 AM'] i guess i didn't explain what i've been telling her very well. i have been slowly trying to tell her why the Church believes these things are wrong..and why I believe the Church...but i'm trying to do it so i don't push her away. [/quote] Good! That's kinda what I figured you meant but I wanted to be certain. You really are a good friend Lil Red! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 If you want to try there is a book out there called: The Good News About Sex And Marriage: Answers to Your Honest Questions abot Catholic Teaching, by Christopher West It explains things pretty clearly and I would recomend it to anyone who is questioning the Church's stand on abortion, contraception...etc.... I don't know if this will help, God Bless, Balthazor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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