Proof-texts For The Nicene Creed

[ICTHUS]

The week after our Good Friday, I celebrated Good Friday (again) at a Greek Orthodox Church, as the Orthodox celebrate Pascha (Easter, to us Latin Rite folks) a week later than we do.

I had an interesting discussion with their priest. I asked him why the Orthodox do not confess that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son as we do. But it raised a question - in my mind - who has the more Biblical teaching?

The Orthodox confess that "we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father..., with the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified"

Whereas Catholics confess that "we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified"

So, what Im asking for are proof texts that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son to the People of God, and not from the Father, through the Son, to the People of God.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

God bless,

Ryan

[L-5]

I don't know but I've heard that this "Filioque" debate is a red herring dispute to impede unity.

[ryanmeyersmusic]

i think both, actually.

given the nature of the trinity, it is possible that the Holy Spirit proceed both from and through the Son.

[ICTHUS]

I don't know but I've heard that this "Filioque" debate is a red herring dispute to impede unity.

So meanwhile, the Orthodox WANT to impede unity? Why on Earth would they want to do that??

Scripture would be nice, in answering the question I just posted..

[Norseman82]

I posted regarding the Filioque being an impediment in another thread. What would interesting is to hear from Eastern Rite Catholics. Are there any on the board that can share their thoughts, as the Eastern Rites actually did go through the reunification process already???

[Mary's Knight, La]

it's not a "red herring". it's a valid theological point on the nature of the trinity. Our (Roman Catholics) belief is that the Holy Spirit is the love of the Father for the Son, and the Son for the Father, hence proceeding both the Father AND the Son. But if it proceeded from the Father through the Son then the nature of the Holy Spirit would be different. One way it's love given, and returned the other way it's only love given. this is only a small part of the issue i'm sure but hopefully it illustrates enough of the idea

[Cure of Ars]

In the Bible it says that the Holy Spirit will be sent from both the Father and the Son. I would say that this means that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both.

“But now I am going to the one who sent me, and not one of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' But because I told you this, grief has filled your hearts. But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.” (John 16:5-7)

I think this issue started more due to the West not having the East involved when they added this into the Creed. From what I can see the Orthodox Church’s broke off more do to politics and cultural differences than actual theology.

So meanwhile, the Orthodox WANT to impede unity? Why on Earth would they want to do that??

I can understand their fear of being united to the Catholic Church again. They fear that the Catholic Church will try to control them and make them follow the Roman way of doing things and they will loose their identity. From what I understand they are mad at us right now for sending Catholic Missionaries into their areas. The Catholic Church has to build trust with the Orthodox Church and have respect for their cultural traditions if we are to be reunited. But by the power of the Holy Spirit I think that this is possible.