Vote Kerry . . .

[CatholicforChrist]

GF, please vote for Peroutka then. There are a couple things that troubled me in your post. First of all, there was a draft proposed in Congress, but this was supported by Democrats as a ploy to use against Bush (and I heard this in my university government class, so it is certainly not Bush-biased). Also, to say that less than 2,000 people total are more important than 4,000 people per day is heinous. To call a human being a fetus is just as disgusting. A baby in the womb is scientifically, genetically, and logically a separate person from the mother. Stating that an unborn baby is somehow less of a person undermines completely the idea of social justice, as Pope John Paull II states in several of his writings. No social action has any merit apart from the most basic social action--supporting the natural human ability to live. You may feel that it is unfair and want to take selfish actions, but the fact is that it is necessary to follow your mind, not your heart. The fact of the matter is that unborn babies are human beings, too, and they deserve the same abilities as that of any other human. In fact, they deserve it moreso (considering that, from a merely natural level, the other individual is not baptized) because of the fact that they have no actual sin. Please consider this.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='Aluigi']What do you say of Bush's plans to resturcture the military pulling out of WWII hotspots and stuff? His investing in unmanned weapons? I think Bush can and will avoid using a draft.[/quote]
Well, Bush is already pulling troops out of WWII hotspots, and he's already using unmanned weapons, but he's still having to pull from the Individual Ready Reserve. Pulling troops out of the WWII hotspots won't be enough, and I'm not even sure I agree with the use of unmanned weapons because of the significant possibility that innocent life would be lost because unmanned weapons, by their very nature, don't discriminate between innocents and combatants -- and the unnecessary death of innocents is intrinsically evil.

Kerry's hope is to involve more nations in the coalition, so that they will contribute more of their troops to the cause, taking the stress off of our military. Not only will Bush refuse to adopt this policy, but he can't; he has so alienated the world that he will never be able to convince them to help us with this, but a new President who has not alienated them may be able to.

The fact really is that the draft will be reinstated under a second Bush term. The fact is also that it will [i]probably[/i] be reinstated under a Kerry Administration, but at least Sen. Kerry will be [i]trying[/i] a new policy in Iraq in order to avoid a draft -- Bush is just making more promises with fraudulent solutions that he has no intention of keeping, as he's done again and again in the past.

[Guest Aluigi]

<in regards to the fetus comment>
[quote]what I'm longing for is an American Church that accepts all of the church's doctrine and not just some of it. I'm longing for Catholics that don't go screaming and whining about everything they like about the church's doctrine, but then turn around and say: "Well, that's negotiable," when they encounter something they don't like. [/quote] -Good Friday

listen to your own words

if it's ever going to happen, it's going to take an effor from EVERY Catholic.

Edited October 29, 2004 by Aluigi

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote]The fact really is that the draft will be reinstated under a second Bush term. [/quote]

This is not fact. This is FICTION.

[quote]Kerry's hope is to involve more nations in the coalition, [/quote]

The leaders of our so-called "allies" (i.e. France and Germany) have said that even if Kerry is elected, they will not join our coalition. This is a FACT.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='CatholicforChrist']There are a couple things that troubled me in your post. First of all, there was a draft proposed in Congress, but this was supported by Democrats as a ploy to use against Bush (and I heard this in my university government class, so it is certainly not Bush-biased).[/quote]
Well, it is true that [i]some Democrats[/i] had introduced a bill that would reinstate the draft, but it was certainly not the Democratic Party as a whole -- the bill had virtually no support, by either Republicans or Democrats. The bill was not introduced to use against Bush, it was introduced to take the burden of war off of minorities, since minorities make up most of the enlisted military. I didn't agree with the bill, but again, it had virtually no support from either party.

[quote name='CatholicforChrist']Also, to say that less than 2,000 people total are more important than 4,000 people per day is heinous.[/quote]
Where's the 2,000 people total figure coming from? I'm not sure even what you're mentioning . . .

[quote name='CatholicforChrist']To call a human being a fetus is just as disgusting. A baby in the womb is scientifically, genetically, and logically a separate person from the mother. Stating that an unborn baby is somehow less of a person undermines completely the idea of social justice, as Pope John Paull II states in several of his writings. No social action has any merit apart from the most basic social action--supporting the natural human ability to live. You may feel that it is unfair and want to take selfish actions, but the fact is that it is necessary to follow your mind, not your heart. The fact of the matter is that unborn babies are human beings, too, and they deserve the same abilities as that of any other human. In fact, they deserve it moreso (considering that, from a merely natural level, the other individual is not baptized) because of the fact that they have no actual sin. Please consider this.[/quote]
One of my biggest problems with the church's doctrine is that I have trouble seeing the fetus as a human life, even though I believe mentally that it's true. To be perfectly honest, I don't care about abortion; it doesn't disgust me the way it might to hear that a child has been murdered, or that another soldier has died in Iraq. I don't see the fetus as a person, even though on one level I believe it's true, I just can't seem to make myself believe it.

Thus, my friends and family matter more to me than the X amount of fetuses that die every day. I'm sure that strikes all of you as astoundingly selfish, and maybe it is, but it is nevertheless how I feel.

[Balthazor]

[quote name='reelguy227' date='Oct 29 2004, 12:53 AM']I got that Info from Fr. Pavone ,you know the guy on EWTN ,who is the spokesperson for Priests for Life ,Im sure he knew what he was talking about when he said it .


God Bless,
Ricky.[/quote]
Just trying to help

I love administrive and constitutional law......
So when someone brings it up I just can't resist.

God Bless,
Balthazor

[qfnol31]

GF, I wouldn't mind you voting for Peroutka over Kerry. He's definately my favourite candidate right now, even though I don't think I should vote for him personally. Oh well. I vote tomorrow, then this is over for me.

To be perfectly honest, it takes me a lot to be able to care for those aborted. However, I do have a sister who probably came dangerously close, and so that makes it somewhat easier to me. Personally, I'm just trying to vote with the Church, knowing that they probably know what they're talking about, and though this may sound bad, trust it from there.

[Winchester]

[QUOTE]I don't care about abortion; it doesn't disgust me the way it might to hear that a child has been murdered, [QUOTE]

I'm going to be totally emotional here.

Find the family of a recently murdered child and say that. Then you won't have to worry about voting ever again.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Oct 29 2004, 03:50 AM']
One of my biggest problems with the church's doctrine is that I have trouble seeing the fetus as a human life, even though I believe mentally that it's true. To be perfectly honest, I don't care about abortion; it doesn't disgust me the way it might to hear that a child has been murdered, or that another soldier has died in Iraq. I don't see the fetus as a person, even though on one level I believe it's true, I just can't seem to make myself believe it.

Thus, my friends and family matter more to me than the X amount of fetuses that die every day. I'm sure that strikes all of you as astoundingly selfish, and maybe it is, but it is nevertheless how I feel. [/quote]
I understand its harder for a man than a woman to conceptualize a little life.

I lost a child in May of 1982 and I am still grieving for that little human being I never saw grow up. You cry, you pray, and trust them to the mercy of God.

Every little baby murdered is only months away from their first smile, a year or so away from their first Christmas. There is nothing on the face of the earth more precious than a new baby. nothing.
Do you have nieces and nephews? Imagine them being sliced up and thrown out with the trash.

[jasJis]

Nathan,
Behind what I've read of what you've posted here is a theme. You are extremely frustrated and bitter when some people disagree with you. You take it as a destructive criticism of a core and fundamental aspect of your self identity which you react against that self doubt. You are unusually intelligent and well spoken and you know it. This adds to your frustration when others don't understand you, ignore you, disagree with you, or attack you for whatever other motives. It certainly isn't all your perception, but that doesn't mean it isn't partly your perception.

I don't think you really mean that you would disagree with God Himself as you posted. You know as well as I, that's a mortal sin rooted in prideful love of self. I do believe you resent ignorant attacks and don't believe people really listen to what you have to say and consider what you are tryig to communicate.

God listens. God knows. God understands. God loves you whether you or others think you are pleasing Him at the moment. He still loves who you are and wants to help you be everything He enabled you to be. What people think of you is nothing compared to what God thinks of you and what people are telling you God thinks of you is nothing compared to what God Himself tells you. Don't let your concern about people's opinion of you blind you to consider what God's opinion of you is.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 27 2004, 05:00 PM'] Why are Catholics liberal in the first place? Liberalism is for the protestants not Catholics. Wake up sleeping Catholics. [/quote]
It's been my experience that all the Protestants that I know are much more conservative than the Catholics I know.

[CatholicforChrist]

[i]El Liberalismo es Pecado [/i](Liberalism is a Sin) is a book by Don Felix Sarda y Salvany, a priest in Barcelona, Spain, published in 1886. Every liberal "Catholic" should read this book.

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Oct 29 2004, 01:50 AM'] To be perfectly honest, I don't care about abortion; it doesn't disgust me the way it might to hear that a child has been murdered, or that another soldier has died in Iraq. I don't see the fetus as a person, even though on one level I believe it's true, I just can't seem to make myself believe it. [/quote]
Okay, 3 things.

1. The number of babies aborted in one year in the US alone is more than the total sum of US soldiers that have ever died in any war (or "police action" as Vietnam, Korea, etc. are labeled).

2. Not sure if a fetus is a person? Think about this: The fetus may have a different blood type from the mother (A, B, O, AB). So it's got to be a separate entity because if you are given the wrong blood type by a blood donor, you will code. Also, check this out: www.teens4truth.com. Check out the video.

3. About your SSA issue. I've never seen you post before until recently. I read all your posts in this thread, and as an orthodox Catholic, I welcome you into the Catholic Church. I myself have a lot of sexual issues. And I've had a lot of premarital sex. But you know what? GOD IS BETTER THAN SEX! I have never missed nor regret anything I gave up for God - sex, porn, drinking, partying, gossip, etc. But dude we all have to change. Is there anyone here who is the person they actually want to be? We all want to be better. That means we have to change. Only crazy people do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. In a great homily I heard before, the priest said that there's not one person in this church who doesn't belong in a 12 step program for something. We're sinners. But we're repentant. I commit mortal sin all the time. I smell of elderberries! Last week I went to confession 2 days in a row. Sometimes I think I'm going straight to hell. But I don't want to. I want Jesus. And I won't compromise my faith to fit my lifestyle. I compromise my lifestyle to fit my faith. I know this is the one true Church. If it wasn't, the devil wouldn't be attacking me so much.

Anyways, sorry this is so long. Remember that there is always someone who cares. Don't listen to the devil. He likes to attack when it's late, you're tired, stressed, and alone. You start to get paranoid, insecure... yeah, I been there and back.

Remember that the church isn't a building. I'd take 100 people who were uncompromisingly orthodox to the Catholic Church over 10,000 people who merely "liked" Jesus. But, oh, to have 10,000...

[Good Friday]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl']Do you have nieces and nephews? Imagine them being sliced up and thrown out with the trash.[/quote]
I'm an only child . . . no siblings, no nieces and nephews.

As for the rest of what everyone else said, I do thank those of you who had kind words for me for the kind words. The problem is that I've heard all of this before -- I've heard how much God loves me, I've heard that it isn't easy to change, I've heard that it takes time and prayer, etc. -- but I've tried, and it just doesn't work. It would be stupid to try again only to be back here in a month.

[Socrates]

Dude, don't despair. That's the devil's ultimate weapon. Never give up, keep up the good fight. I'm not gay, but we all struggle with our own sins and weaknesses - the specifics are different for each person. You've got to be a man and face up to your challenges, rather than falling into self-pity and blaming others (or the Church) for your problems.

Of course, I can't tell you how to vote, but since it seems you have really big issues with Bush, all I can say is don't vote for Kerry - he will do no good for the country (maybe vote Peroutka - at least it sends a better message). Remember, a lot of us have similar feelings about Kerry and other Democrats! (but politics is less importantthan what I've said at the beginning of this post)