conversation with a muslim

[hopeful1]

ok, at the end of Critical thinking today we we're talking about Bush and the War in Iraq and the prof. was asking about everybody's opinion about it. well one of the guys in my class is muslim and he said that the whole thing seemed to boil down to religion because of all the Jews involved in the government and that they want to take over the arab nations and stuff like that-but then class ended, but he was still talking about to the professor about his relgion and stuff and i was there next to him waiting to talk to the professor. This guy was so gung ho about his faith it was almost like listening to an evangelical going on roll, except he was muslim. Anyways, i don't remember everything i was taught about islam my jr year in hs, but i do know that they believe Jesus is a prophet, but he was talking about the day of judgement and how the antichrist will appear and will be blind in one eye ( ) and then Jesus would appear ( i don't remember what kind of role he said he played at the end of the world tho), that the old testament is part of the Koran, but the translation of it in the Christian Bible has been altered and the Koran's old testament was the only one that wasn't unadulterated because it was reveiled to Mohammad by the Angel Gabriel and that to call Jesus the son of God was blasphemy because God has no sons. He also invited me to talk to him sometime about islam and read the Koran with him and meet some Muslim women at his mosque, but i politly explained that i had to go to work (which i did) and that although i may be interested in learning more about islam, i had no intention of converting and that if he was interested in learning about Christianity/Catholicism i'd be willing to discuss that with him too. he also brought up how christians believe in the same prophets as muslims and stuff, and heaven and hell, and fwe things about God that i was like "good, we share some common ground".It was weird, but interesting, but i wish i could have said more to defend myself, but i didn't have alot of time. I mean he wasn't condemning me or anything, he just kinda came of as one of those well meaning protestants that'll ask if you're "saved", but are very adament about their faith. But God definately made it clear i need to brush up on my apologetics, especially if i do end up discussing things with this guy, especially when it comes to thing about Gabriel giving God's revelation to Mohammad ( i say this because if i were totally uneducated about Christianity, i might look into islam because it seems like a continuation of what happened after JEsus, if that made any sense, and i need to come up with a better defense than "b/c it's not in the bible b/c the early church said so"). but does anyone have any advice on apologetics when dealing with muslims/nonchristians?

[hopeful1]

bump

[toledo_jesus]

From what I understand, according to Islam Jesus will come back at the end to inform us that we are wrong and we should have been Muslims.
I don't know about apologetics for Muslims. I would think that stressing the sacrificial nature of Jesus would be a good thing. Of course, they don't believe that Jesus was crucified, so that might be hard.

[DancesforLove]

My sister and her soon to be fiance are actually Muslim.

The part about Jews in the government, you either typed something wrong or he repeated it wrong.

The stance of true Muslims about this war is that it's wrong, if you have read the Koran, then you would know that they (all involved on that end of the war) are going to hell by the Muslim belief because he declared a Jjihad (Holy War)

They believe that Jesus was a prophet, but they believe prophets where sent to the whole world and that Jesus is not the son of God. There is actually more information about Mary in the Koran because the Bible for the Catholic church was edited by not only Church people, but politicians. So certain books, the "forgotten books", were left out of the Bible to make the appearance of Jesus better, while doing that parts of Marys life were left out.

The Islamic beliefs are not all that much different than the Catholics. They just do not believe in the Trinity, Sainthood, and the elaborate churches and the "government" of the Church (the pope, bishops, ect)

When you asked about dealing with apologetics with Muslims, the best thing you can do is not argue religion or try and convert them.
Follow the quote by Saint Francis of Assisi
Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.

Muslims are not people who believe that anyone other than Muslims are going to Hell, they believe all true followers of monotheistic beliefs will be granted into heaven.
They do not view the rest of the religions as sinners. They are very hardheaded (just like us)
Religious arguments are pointless, I've tried trust me, let your example lead.

Hope that helps!

[DancesforLove]

Oh toledo I just saw your post.

They DO believe he was crucified, they don't believe he died for our sins. They view him as a prophet that died but not our savior

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

dude I have this awesome book I got at the National Catholic Youth Conference here in Houston. It's in a Q&A format, written by Muslims who converted to Christianity. It's titled something like "Questions and Answers to Islam for Catholics." It also helps you to respond to them. Apologetics with a Muslim twist.

The book isn't in-depth, but it gets you thinking & provides a little insight. Great for a beginner.

They also have books like this for Buddhism. Hey, when I get the book back I'll PM you the title & stuff. I can mail it to you or something or if you're close by we can meet up and I'll drop it off, or you can just order it from your local Catholic bookstore.

[SignOfTheCross]

[quote]The Islamic beliefs are not all that much different than the Catholics. They just do not believe in the Trinity, Sainthood, and the elaborate churches and the "government" of the Church (the pope, bishops, ect)[/quote]

Muslims deny the deity of Christ. The only thing we really have in common with them is we believe in the same God, yet Muslims deny this and even this is arguable.

[quote]There is actually more information about Mary in the Koran because the Bible for the Catholic church was edited by not only Church people, but politicians. So certain books, the "forgotten books", were left out of the Bible to make the appearance of Jesus better, while doing that parts of Marys life were left out.[/quote]

The biblical canon was never edited by politicians. The original canon was decided by Roman Catholic Bishops at the councils of Hippo and Carthage and sealed at the Council of Trent. Perhaps it is possible politicians at that time who influenced the biblical canon were also Catholic.

[quote]Muslims are not people who believe that anyone other than Muslims are going to Hell, they believe all true followers of monotheistic beliefs will be granted into heaven.[/quote]

Actually most Muslims believe Christians, Jews, Hindus etc will burn in hell.

[socalscout]

Revelation 1:3-8

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 1:9-20

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last... Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen"

This might oversimplify things but I see these statements as nullifying anything Muhammad says.

I must say that I am ignorant of the Islamic religion so I cannot tell you what Muhammad said.

[toledo_jesus]

I don't know, but it seems that Islam gives the most treatment to other religions. Like, it devotes time to telling us why Christians are wrong, and why Jews are wrong...etc.

[StMichael]

The muslim cult "thinking" is so off center.

Let's follow this for a moment:

- They claim Jesus as a "prophet."

- A prophet speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a God is expressed.

- Jesus says "I am the Son Of God."

Therefore, muslims either DO NOT believe Jesus is a prophet or that Jesus is a liar.

Which is it?

[hopeful1]

hmm^

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StMichael' date='Oct 27 2004, 02:03 PM'] The muslim cult "thinking" is so off center.

Let's follow this for a moment:

- They claim Jesus as a "prophet."

- A prophet speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a God is expressed.

- Jesus says "I am the Son Of God."

Therefore, muslims either DO NOT believe Jesus is a prophet or that Jesus is a liar.

Which is it? [/quote]
Well, but don't they say that Jesus didn't really claim to be God and that it was just a creation of the Church?

[DancesforLove]

[quote name='SignOfTheCross' date='Oct 27 2004, 10:02 AM']
Muslims deny the deity of Christ. The only thing we really have in common with them is we believe in the same God, yet Muslims deny this and even this is arguable.



The biblical canon was never edited by politicians. The original canon was decided by Roman Catholic Bishops at the councils of Hippo and Carthage and sealed at the Council of Trent. Perhaps it is possible politicians at that time who influenced the biblical canon were also Catholic.



Actually most Muslims believe Christians, Jews, Hindus etc will burn in hell. [/quote]
I'm affraid your wrong. I did extensive reseach on this.

First, Muslims believe in the same God, they do not deny it. They don't believe in the trinity or that Christ is son of God, they view him as a prophet who was crucified, thats all. The part about them viewing him as a liar, the Koran has different books and it is written differently, in the Koran it doesn't say Christ is the son of God.

The original Bible WAS edited by the Church Bishops, BUT it was also edited by Political rulers at the time. (I had to research this for my history recently)
Yes those politicians were Catholic BUT it does not matter, a politician has no business editing the Bible period. That is the Church's job, but we are also talking about a time when the people heading the Church was former politicians, or people that were put there by politics. (My history solely focuses on this time in history and about the Church, who was ruling, ect)

Ok something most people misunderstand is, religions may teach something, but the followers may profess something different. The Koran says, all believers in Alah (Islamic for God) shall be granted entry to Heaven and be treated in the same manner. In other words, if you've sinned your going to Hell no matter what religion. Believers in religions such as Hindu that are not monotheistic (believing in one God) will go to Hell.
This is what the Koran itself teaches, now whether or not the followers will profess that is regardless. Kerry professes to be a Catholic yet teaches that abortion is right.

You have to focus on what the religion itself teaches, not it's followers. Islam is a firm believer in that which is why they have no Priests, ministers, preachers, ect. Someone may read from the Koran but that is all, you go to the Mosque to pray but no one preaches to you. It's a time for quiet, deep reflection and prayer.

[Guest Aluigi]

The Koran specifically says worshiping Jesus is idolatry and those who worship Him ("against his will" well, what muslims think would be Jesus' will) will burn in hell. If you want chapter and verse, I'll find it for you. I read it in the context of like a whole big section it was in.

The Latin Vulgate as translated by St. Jerome from unaltered texts is the Infallible Word of God. It was not tampered with by politicians, it's the same one St. Jerome wrote down translating from the ancient texts themselves. I believe St. Jerome's copy is still in existence in the Vatican Secret Archives or something... ? I could be wrong. Yeah, there are many differing versions that came up out of the time period, and there are a lot of texts that have erasing and crossing out and words in the margins like "you fool, don't tamper with the Word of God" and stuff like that, it came out through a whole bunch of iffy situations... but we are assured by the Divine Catholic Church that the at least the Latin Vulgate is infallibly the Word of God. Now, all these new translations are important, but they are probably more susceptable to the curruption you're talking about.

Muslims burned all Korans that were even slightly altered.
Catholics tried to do that banning erroneous translations of the Bible during the Reformation, however for us a whole bunch of different translations went every which way as big chunks of our own Church rejected us. But yeah, so what? We believe that the word of God contains both the Written Word and the Spoken Word of Tradition through the ages, so I'm not worried

[Guest Aluigi]

incedently, a friend of mine in school who's a girl and wears her Muslim head covering thing I respect a ton. we've had deep convos about modesty and how girls at our school severely lack it, and she is very eloquent at explaining her reasoning for the head covering. i mentioned how we used to have head coverings in Church with the same general ideas and i thought it was awesome. anyway, that's real inter-faith ecumenism if i ever knew it. inter-faith friendships, finding points of agreement, eventually trying to work out points of disagreement (that's where the hopeful converting would come in)

funny thing, did you know a company named "Christian D" makes like, headcoverings... cuz the first time i saw her i thought she must be from some radical christian sect or something cause it said christian on it!