Deja Vu Or Clairvoyance

[Gaian Dreamer]

First Don John, I belive its because You copy and pasted, I suggest just going with putting it in bold or a diffrent color, alot easier to read as well. It puts quotes in HTML boxes, so its more complex to quote many things; down right probably impossible for the phatmass system.

Just going off key things.

A Revival

Yes, Druidry died, for a good reason too.

Rejecting Practices

I do reject practices because unlike other religions, using things such as " Dogmas ", practices that MUST be followed in order to be part of it.

As I mentioned before Druidry follows more so " Catmas ", leaving the beliefs to change and mold to become better. To flow with the ages. Yes, now a days murder/assisted suicide is illegal. And Druidry has no problems to molding to current moral and legal standards.

Feilds of Slain Men

Not talking about anything inpaticualar, there have been many wars in the name of God, more people have been killed in the name of/for God, then anything.

Raping Thy own

A simple example, Joan of Arc. Ment nothing about raping your own children, seems more to molest other's children. Perhaps its a preist thing.

Catholicism

What ever denomination you may be, you are at root, Christian.

Reconsidering my Faith

I don't have faith, I belive in the Druidic ways. Mainly the Ovatus.

Rejecting Druidry

You act as though a belief system/religion can NEVER change. So if I reject " blood magic " and scarifices I am not a Druid. This is exact what Druidry is -not-. Catmas, not Dogmas, like I said before. Things are ever changing just as the leaves turn every year so does Druidry.

I mean no offense, but you seem to be a very all or nothing person. And your repedative attempt at hinting me to belive I am not what I think, that I should reconsider, in my opinion, is at best, a poor attempt to convert.

So Im just gonna say, Im not going to find God, for once in my life I have found myself, and it makes me happy and I can handle things the way it is.

Focusing on the Past

You say you don't focus on the past, but you keep talking about the past, continously.

Divination

I had never once said that studying the flight of birds was Druidic. You assumed such, it maybe be roman, but that doesn't effect it or me in the least. As I have said before, but overlooked for, probably, lack of a witty response.

Druidry is not a religion in my opinion, You can be A Druid, and still be Christian, it is a compiled thing. There are many diffrent things about it that are similer, or taken from other cultures, religions, beleifs. Alot of them come from Paganism, for good reason.

Aliens and Animals

First, yes they may beable to make a starship and weapons, wether they have a soul or not is not your decision, everything living, is eqaul, they all live..From a Tree to a Human. And perhaps why we haven't met any aliens is because maybe they arn't warmongers like us humans, or don't feel the need to come down interupt our entire way of life. Just to say " Hi! We are Humans! Arn't we neat? "

And you seem to be nothing more then a Specist. Or more so a Human Supremacist...Alot like a White Supremacist, or a racist.

A cat, dog, mouse, each can have a soul and probably do. As do the trees and every blade of grass. This planet is alive, to live is to be worth.

If you find yourself better then a dog, because you can do more tricks. Then so be it, but let me say that a dog or cat could have a far more pure soul then yours.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that no matter what I say, I will not sway your opinions and refusal to change. Its useless to fight someone, when they refuse to be wrong, I know you'll come up with something witty and attention gaining to say to each of these.

But before you waste your time in doing so, Im going to tell you, I have no interest in talking or debating with an Evangelistic Specist.

[Gaian Dreamer]

In response to IcePrincessKRS.

First, Im just going to say Your are in no way offensive, or rude anything of the sort, you've been very polite and inforamitive, at times a bit critical, but with good reasons.

Anyway, I proably wasn't too coherant when I read your post, but I now notice, but no thank you, I don't need it explained.

The reason I am not Christian, is because it seems utterly silly to me. I've just had no interest or much like for it, although respect, don't like it. Its not for me.

I follow Druidry because for one it doesn't throw itself out there with obsessivly strick rules, it has never tried to make more Druids or the sort. Because its almost like a life style, the few things I speak of are only the tip of the ice burg, And Druids actually arn't vegitartians.

they -used- to practice animal sacrifices, for the reason, food was scares, so they scarificed and let it bleed for their god/s. And also they had food to eat.

I use god/s because Druidry doesn't really have their own gods. Druidry isn't a controlling religion, you can be Christian and a Druid, but Christianity is probably against that.

" The Druid Path, awakening to the teachsing of our ancestors, guides, and to the spirits of the natural world, of sun, moon and stars, tree and leaf, wind and rain, sea and river, fur and feather. To find new and potent relationships with our acestors of blood and spirit, to create and work with sacred spaces, to attune to the changing patterns of the natural world, through celebration of its cycles, and to access and work with the flowing spirit of inspiration that we call Awen. "

" Why should a philosophy rooted deep in the prehistoric past still have relevance in our technologcal age? What is it in the teachings of our ancestors that speaks to us across the centuries. The answer to both is that Druidry offers the tools we need to recreate our world by recreating ourselves. "

Both taken from " Druidry " by Philip Shallcrass.

I hope I have clarifyed with this, if there are any other questions you have, don't hesitate to ask.

[Lil Red]

Raping Thy own

A simple example, Joan of Arc.  Ment nothing about raping your own children, seems more to molest other's children.  Perhaps its a preist thing.

That was a low blow :angry:

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Well don't be surprised Red, it appears that Mr. Dreamer is full of low blows. After all it appears he can discern the purity of someone's soul:

If you find yourself better then a dog, because you can do more tricks. Then so be it, but let me say that a dog or cat could have a far more pure soul then yours.

And whether or not animals actually have a soul! I'm soooo very glad that someone finally came along and cleared that up for us poor unknowing Catholics.

And hey! Did you hear this one?

You can be A Druid, and still be Christian,

Wow!! I wonder if you can be a Satanist and still be Christian? Oh, wait, that's comparing apples to oranges since today's newly enlightened pagans (be they wiccan or druid or me-ist or whatever) simply can't wrap their minds around the idea that evil can truly exist at all. Oh, except for, of course, the evil that men do...

because maybe they arn't warmongers like us humans

.

And you seem to be nothing more then a Specist. Or more so a Human Supremacist...Alot like a White Supremacist, or a racist.

Seem to be a Human Supremacist? Wow. You can't even handle it when someone actually comes out and says it right there for you. I believe I have the quote correct when I say that Don John does hold himself higher than animals. Wow. To accuse him of being a racist is truly low and demeaning. You do not know him. You do not know where we live. Perhaps you should take a step back off a bit. Go eat some soy puffs or something. I can only assume you're a vegetarian since you probably couldn't possible have a little discussion with each and every animal you might consume. But, then, hey maybe you do. Do you ask their permission to eat them? How about the blades of grass you walk on? Or do you just not walk on the grass? What about the ants you've crushed under your non-leather shod feet as you walk on the evil concrete that evil men constructed? Or do you take great pains to avoid them also? Have you ever used flea killer or Off for mosquitoes? Or do you simply try to keep insects at bay with herbs (which btw I'm not knocking)? I mean, if that's the case aren't you depriving them of the right of food by not allowing them to bite you? Where does it end?

And what the hell is a catma?

I'm really glad you're happy with your life situation right now. And for the life of me I can't figure out why you're wasting your life energy here with those of us "Evangelistic Specist[ists]".

[Gaian Dreamer]

Mhmm, Kilroy, first, I never called him a racist, merely compared. Because without comparason nobody here seems to give a beaver dam. I voiced my own beliefs and opinions if your going to get pissy with me over that, then its useless to talk to you as well.

You can be A Druid and still be Christian, don't be a sarcastic, well Im sure you can find a word for youself.

Perhaps you should read about the Druidic Traditions before you mouth off like an idiot.

You Sterotype me way too much, with your own low blows, For the most part I have refrained from doing the same.

There is evil yes, Men do most of it, animals do alot of it to, but only to their nature and for survival. Animals live on with no issues, unlike men.

Druidry is infact a way to improove yourself by improoving the world around you, it is totall concoious to the evils that be, but we don't relate them to smallest details and outlaw them by religious punishment.

I am not a vegitarian, I actually love meat. When I consume meat, No I don't ask them for permission they are already dead, you make me out like a tree hugging hippie. I am grateful for the animal that died to bring meat to my table.

The blades of grass I walk apon are not hurt or killed, it would only take then a day or two to return to their standing position. Ants? Most ants arn't even effected by being stepped on, and if I do kill one or two Ants, it is by mistake and mistake alone. I do take care to avoid stepping on a line of Ants, I do watch for them. To avoid such things I merely tred lightly.

As for mosquitoes? Spiders and incests alike...The same, I do not intentionally end life, and you know, I don't care if a mosquitoe lands on me and bites me, I let them..Same goes for spiders, though be it alot more dangerous, I have not been bitten when I am aware of a spider on me, I don't swat or smack or crush, I merely move my arm, leg or hand in the direction of which she was crawling. I perfect accept them on my body, and I guess they are aware of my acceptance and feel no need to forgive my unpleasant disposition out of fear or dominance.

This would be the second, maybe third time I have explained Catmas, this time I will just quote a book.

" There are no dogmas in Druidry, just "catmas". Dogmas are rgid beliefs, often received from others, that tend to stifle freedom of thought and expression. Catmas are fluid beliefs, held only as long as they have value, perhaps until they are superseded by our growth in experience and understand. Catmas offer us the freemdom to behave as if our beliefs are true, allowing us to thoroughly test their worth. For example, one of my catmas is that the spirits of nature are as real as the computer on which I'm writing these words, enabling me to interact with them with respect. A few years ago I belived diffrently, how ever. And in a few years time my opinion may change again. You may belive that such spirits are poetic metaphors or psychological projections. Thats fine. All I ask is that you allow yourself the freedom to try out the belief systems in this book and see if they work for you. So, before we begin, let your dogmas off their leashes and allow them to run free. They may race around in chaotic confusion for a while, butgive them time and you will find that, one by one, they turn into self-reliant, cool catmas. "

[cmotherofpirl]

Since everything is fluid do you have any absolutes?

[Gaian Dreamer]

It depends on what you mean by " absolutes "

[jasJis]

It depends on what you mean by " absolutes "

You've got to be kidding me.

I had no idea this thread was going on until DJ spoke about it in the alley.

Put away the sharp sword DJ. The one I mentioned is still too good to be sullied by the likes of this. :blink:

[Don John of Austria]

kilroy says whoooo!( while throughing hands up in the air)

Don John laughs in a very dignified 16th century knight in public, kind of way.

Edited October 14, 2003 by Don John of Austria

[jasJis]

First off. The Catmas is nothing more then a discarded and discredited philosophy of Fallibalilsm. You can look it up online.

Secondly. Animals can not do the harm or evil that humans can because they are also limited by the good they can effect. (not affect). True Good and Free Will neccessitate the potential for True Evil and Enslavement. It's as basic as realizing one dimension cannot exist without the potential of non-existence. What you forget is that potential for evil and effecting evil are two different things. God created Good and Existence for their own sake, not for the sake of Evil and Non-existence. The fact that they (evil and non-esistence) exist is the dignity of Free Will that humanity has along with worth of our actions generated by the effects of our action. Do we do Good if that is all we can do? Or is True Good only realised as an alternative to the potential of Evil?

Dreamy,

Don't just read one philosophy book. You've got to dwell on it dude.

Edited October 14, 2003 by jasJis

[Don John of Austria]

Okay I guess I will begin at the beginning of your response to me and then move on.

In no particular order:

A Revival

Yes, Druidry died, for a good reason too.

If it died for a good reason why would you want to revive it? That doesn't make any sense. Please explain this as it seems rather counterproductive, if it died for good reason let it stay dead.

Rejecting Practices

I do reject practices because unlike other religions, using things such as " Dogmas ", practices that MUST be followed in order to be part of it.

As I mentioned before Druidry follows more so " Catmas ", leaving the beliefs to change and mold to become better. To flow with the ages. Yes, now a days murder/assisted suicide is illegal. And Druidry has no problems to molding to current moral and legal standards.

You have repeatedly said you are part of the druidic tradition yet this statement rejects the very notion of tradition as does this one:

Rejecting Druidry

You act as though a belief system/religion can NEVER change. So if I reject " blood magic " and scarifices I am not a Druid. This is exact what Druidry is -not-. Catmas, not Dogmas, like I said before. Things are ever changing just as the leaves turn every year so does Druidry.

I mean no offense, but you seem to be a very all or nothing person. And your repedative attempt at hinting me to belive I am not what I think, that I should reconsider, in my opinion, is at best, a poor attempt to convert.

So Im just gonna say, Im not going to find God, for once in my life I have found myself, and it makes me happy and I can handle things the way it is

Tradition is exactly the opposite of what you speak of---- tradition as defined by webster----

1. \Tra*di"tion\, n. [OE. tradicioun, L. traditio, from

2. tradere to give up, transmit. See {Treason}, {Traitor}.]

3. 1. The act of delivering into the hands of another; delivery.

4.    ``A deed takes effect only from the tradition or

5.    delivery.'' --Blackstone.

6.

7. 2. The unwritten or oral delivery of information, opinions,

8.    doctrines, practices, rites, and customs, from father to

9.    son, or from ancestors to posterity; the transmission of

10.    any knowledge, opinions, or practice, from forefathers to

11.    descendants by oral communication, without written

12.    memorials.

13.

14. 3. Hence, that which is transmitted orally from father to

15.    son, or from ancestors to posterity; knowledge or belief

16.    transmitted without the aid of written memorials; custom

17.    or practice long observed.

18.

19.          Will you mock at an ancient tradition begun upon an

20.          honorable respect?                    --Shak.

21.

22.          Naught but tradition remains of the beautiful

23.          village of Grand-Pr['e].              --Longfellow.

24.

25. 4. (Theol.)

26.    (a) An unwritten code of law represented to have been

27.        given by God to Moses on Sinai.

28.

29.              Making the word of God of none effect through

30.              your tradition, which ye have delivered. --Mark

31.                                                vii. 13.

32.    (B) That body of doctrine and discipline, or any article

33.        thereof, supposed to have been put forth by Christ or

34.        his apostles, and not committed to writing.

35.

36.              Stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye

37.              have been taught, whether by word or our

38.              epistle.                          --2 Thess. ii.

39.                                                15.

40.

41. {Tradition Sunday} (Eccl.), Palm Sunday; -- so called because

42.    the creed was then taught to candidates for baptism at

43.    Easter.

44.

45.

46. \Tra*di"tion\, v. t.

47. To transmit by way of tradition; to hand down. [Obs.]

48.

49.      The following story is . . . traditioned with very much

50.      credit amongst our English Catholics.    --Fuller.

No you can't go around saying you are a part of a tradition and then say you don't hold on to anything of the past, that is not a tradition that is a fad.

Focusing on the Past

You say you don't focus on the past, but you keep talking about the past, continously.

Please show me where I said such a thing, I can't see my self saying such a thing , the Past is what a "tradition" is, if you reject the past of something then you break with a tradition. Why would you claim to be part of something that had practices you reject? agian that makes no sense.

Feilds of Slain Men

Not talking about anything inpaticualar, there have been many wars in the name of God, more people have been killed in the name of/for God, then anything

Actually this is one of those really stupid statements which cannot be proven, but which any simple cursury study of history will disprove, most wars are fought over land and money, study more preach platitudes less.

Raping Thy own

A simple example, Joan of Arc. Ment nothing about raping your own children, seems more to molest other's children. Perhaps its a preist thing

Kind of like the caldron calling the kettle black here, pagans through out history have had a habit of enslaving little boys so the could have sex with them, so please again get your facts straight before you open your mouth.

Divination

I had never once said that studying the flight of birds was Druidic. You assumed such, it maybe be roman, but that doesn't effect it or me in the least. As I have said before, but overlooked for, probably, lack of a witty response.

You claim to be in the druidic tradition, the romans killed the Druids it seemed odd to me you would be learning spiritualism from such a bloodthirsty warmongering people.

Druidry is not a religion in my opinion, You can be A Druid, and still be Christian, it is a compiled thing. There are many diffrent things about it that are similer, or taken from other cultures, religions, beleifs. Alot of them come from Paganism, for good reason

This is just absurd, if it isn't a religion then it is just meaningless garbage, so which is it?

Aliens and Animals

First, yes they may beable to make a starship and weapons, wether they have a soul or not is not your decision, everything living, is eqaul, they all live..From a Tree to a Human. And perhaps why we haven't met any aliens is because maybe they arn't warmongers like us humans, or don't feel the need to come down interupt our entire way of life. Just to say " Hi! We are Humans! Arn't we neat? "

And you seem to be nothing more then a Specist. Or more so a Human Supremacist...Alot like a White Supremacist, or a racist.

A cat, dog, mouse, each can have a soul and probably do. As do the trees and every blade of grass. This planet is alive, to live is to be worth.

If you find yourself better then a dog, because you can do more tricks. Then so be it, but let me say that a dog or cat could have a far more pure soul then yours.

I get to decide whether things have a soul or not LOOK EVERYBODY I HAVE BEEN PROMOTED TO GOD this is absurd either something has a soul or it doesn't what I think has nothing to do with it, what you think also has nothing to do with it. That being said, animals do not have souls in the Human sense, they have spirits sure they must, they move but they are not a soul in the human sense of the word.

And YES I AM A HUMAN SUPREMACIST! God made us just a little beneath Him, greater than the angels, and most certianly above the animals. If you choose to wallow in the filth of animals, go ahead, do not try and drag us down with you.

Perhaps you should read about the Druidic Traditions before you mouth off like an idiot

I think you are the one who needs to read about the Druidic Traditions before mouthing of like an idiot, I reallize it's too late in this case but for future reference, start with the word TRADITION, it should be easy; I defined it for you above.

Ps. I am a Catholic there are no other Full Christians they have broken with tradition and have ceased to be true Christians just as you have ceased to be a druid.

[Lil Red]

whooo hoooooo!!!!! Don John's back with his sword!!!!!!

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Mhmm, Kilroy, first, I never called him a racist, merely compared.  Because without comparason nobody here seems to give a beaver dam.  I voiced my own beliefs and opinions if your going to get pissy with me over that, then its useless to talk to you as well.

Why do all you silly pagans start out your posts with Mmmmmm? Is this meant to make you seem more thoughtful? Just an honest question.

Resorting to name calling now Mr. Dreamer? Are you another "cafeteria" pagan "choosing" not to abide by the Rule of Three? Just curious.

Careful who you call an idiot little man. For my God is an amesome God who defends His own and performs miracles the likes of which you cannot possibly conceive of.

Is it possible you fear He might perform a miracle upon you?

I brought my sword too. Let's play!

:ph34r:

Edited October 14, 2003 by Kilroy the Ninja

[Kilroy the Ninja]

And one last question Gaian, why are you posting on Phatmass?

[Gaian Dreamer]

Silly Pagans, Oi...I said Mhmm, not Mmmm.. You people don't seem to listen, why do you keep bringing up pagans? Am I pagan? No.

Lemme ask, why Do you silly christians pray to an invisable fuher that you killed the only son of because you weren't good enough?

Do you really need to gang up on me? One of you can't handle a single person? Do you have to call in force in numbers.

Kilory, What does the rule of three have to do with this? And oh, I shake in fear. Your imaginary friend is so scary. Let him preform a mircle on me, then i'll belive and maybe become chirstian, but I would still stay Druidic. Oh wait....Mircles only happen to preists when noone is around...Kinda like the commandments...Something smells fishy.

I call who I wan't an idiot, freedom of speech. And by definiton most of you are, continously repeating things, alot of the time off topic and having nothing to do with the anything even said.

Don John, it died because of the changing ways, and its brought back molding to the new ways. You say you know about Druidry, but you keep babbling on and on about the past and how not doing what they did then makes me none Druidic, when that is one of the major points of Druidry.

90% of your response is about irelivant(and or stupid) topics. I will say this in defense of Pagans, which I am not, get that through your heads. Pagans may have slaved little boys to rape then, but that wasn't a crime then. Wrong yes, but not a crime. Oh but see, once it was outlawed and a crime, thats when its became cool, so your preists start doing it. Not only that, to the children of church faithfuls too! Probably in the name of God as well, I wonder how many times " Its the will of God, now take off your pantaloons little Jimmy. " Has been said.

Romans slaughtering Druids, Okay. Thats nice...Whats it matter, if it works it works. Romans killed Druids, Christians killed EVERYBODY, little of these, alot of those, oh and some of these! That guy looked at me funny...A bunch of them!

Stop being all or nothing, its just stupid.

-------------------------------------

I posted on Phatmass because I thought maybe I wouldn't be attacked by hordes or your kind, for attempt to help out with what I know, give a diffrent opinion. Maybe help someone not hate themselves for something god says is wrong, yet allows us to possess. But instead I get attacked like I a african american and you guys have cleared out the local Sheet Factory. White is so your color. Well not color, the lack of color...Nothing, empty, oo...Good choice of color. Its suits your kind.

I've got nothing more to say on this thread, I posted what I could to help, been attacked, defended, tried to remain nice, ambushed by reforcements. What you say won't really matter, won't bother reading it.

Edited October 14, 2003 by Gaian Dreamer