Deja Vu Or Clairvoyance

[Don John of Austria]

Okay first Clairvoyance is a preternatural ability which allows one to see events in other places, it can be agift from God or a gift of the devil. Its name comes from the Saint which had it, St. Clair of the Poor Clair's. So no it is not neccesarly evil.

Telekinisis well thats a differant story, I can not think of any time when telekinetic powers have been or could be attributed to divine gifts, only to the nether powers.

Now that doesn't mean God would not alloww something to be moved at the will of a holy man only that it would not move under power through him, to referance the scripture here one might be holy enough and have faith enough to tell a mountian to move and it might move but it would be the mountian that move at Gods whim not at the Saints whim.

Now that we have that said, to our new member--- Gaian Dreamer.

First I must say this, I just have to " OOOOH OOOOOH OOOOOOH A DRUID" ( Don John jumps up and down with glee , but in a dignified way).

So Mr. Druid what was the last time you sacrificed a person in the sacred grove, for that matter where is your sacred grove, you do have one right. what was the last thing you sacrificed in it. Does the smell of rotting corpses hanging from the trees bother you when you are performing the sacred rites.

How do you perform divination, the ancient Druids divined in human Blood where do you get yours, I mean the old fashion way is illegal now, or do you preform your blood magic with other types of blood, not really following the old ways but a reasonable adaptation to our Cutures Christian revoltion to human sacrifice and such.

You really should reald the Bible before talking about what it proves or disproves, you see I know about the Druidic tradition you don't know anything about the Christian one. the existance of aliens would have no impact on Christianities correctness, if we found intellegent alien life we would have to make certian determinations, among these would be----Are they Children of Adam--- are the y touched by origional sin, and need salvation. If not- are they perfect? Do theyu live forever and have no sin in them ( then this would have to be a seperate creation), assuming that they arn't perfect do they have souls at all, if they do and they are not perfect and they arte not Children of adam is the sacrifice of Christ for them or not? If they do not have souls then they are but animals smart animals but animals none the less what relation should we have with a supersmart beast, should we stewart them or just level them before they ( following the nature of beast) level us? None of this in any way contradicts the Bible or any othe rpart of Christian Tradition, so whats next.

Edited October 11, 2003 by Don John of Austria

[IcePrincessKRS]

Excellent post Don John. :)

[Don John of Austria]

thank you

[Gaian Dreamer]

Okay first Clairvoyance is a preternatural ability which allows one to see events in other places, it can be agift from God or a gift of the devil. Its name comes from the Saint which had it, St. Clair of the Poor Clair's. So no it is not neccesarly evil.

Telekinisis well thats a differant story, I can not think of any time when telekinetic powers have been or could be attributed to divine gifts, only to the nether powers.

Now that doesn't mean God would not alloww something to be moved at the will of a holy man only that it would not move under power through him, to referance the scripture here one might be holy enough and have faith enough to tell a mountian to move and it might move but it would be the mountian that move at Gods whim not at the Saints whim.

Now that we have that  said, to our new member--- Gaian Dreamer.

First I must say this, I just have to " OOOOH OOOOOH OOOOOOH A DRUID" ( Don John jumps up and down with glee , but in a dignified way).

So Mr. Druid what was the last time you sacrificed a person in the sacred grove, for that matter where is your sacred grove, you do have one right.  what was the last thing you sacrificed in it. Does the smell of rotting corpses hanging from the trees bother you when you are performing the sacred rites.

How do you perform divination, the ancient Druids divined in human Blood where do you get yours, I mean the old fashion way is illegal now, or do you preform your blood magic with other types of blood, not really following the old ways but a reasonable adaptation to our Cutures Christian revoltion to human sacrifice and such.

You really should reald the  Bible before talking about what it proves or disproves, you see I know about the  Druidic tradition you don't know anything about the Christian one. the existance of aliens would have no impact on Christianities correctness, if we found intellegent alien life we would have to make certian determinations,  among these would be----Are they Children of Adam--- are the y touched by origional sin, and need salvation.  If not- are they perfect?  Do theyu live forever and have no sin in them ( then this would have to be a seperate creation), assuming that they arn't perfect do they have souls at all, if they do and they are not perfect and they arte not Children of adam is the sacrifice of Christ for them or not? If they do not have souls then they are but animals smart animals but animals none the less what relation should we have with a supersmart beast, should we stewart them or just level them before they ( following the nature of beast) level us?  None of this in any way contradicts the Bible or any othe rpart of Christian Tradition, so whats next.

I haven't read a bible, nor do I intend to, I don't talk about what proves wrong or right, I asked about the alien factor and I opinionate.

So yes, I am Druidic, don't sterotype Druidry though, I dont have a sacred grove, I don't sacrifice people or anything for that matter.

Current Druidry is a revival, don't act like we are still blood thirtsy. Which your questions lead me to ask...Do you find the feilds of slain men in the name of God pretty? Was it fun to attempt genocide? Does it bother you to rape your on so you can say they arn't virgins, and thus have just used them to instill a Christian into power?

Focus on the present, Christianity did some screwed up things, far worse then any druid. True, Druids in early CE did scarifice to their god...But it is also true, Christians burned people alive, because they wouldnt convert or head " God's " will, but do go ahead and justify your religion's screw ups and say mine are still bad, thats what your good at.

But Druids arn't very blood thirtsy and don't go to war. There is even a tradition to speak the word " Heddwch " draw your sword, and then sheath it again to show that peace does inDouche exist.

As for preforming divination, no I don't use blood.( Stop focusing on the past, its a cheap method to put yourself in higher graces.) I don't preform blood magic, nor any magic at all at the moment. Divination, I seek through dreaming, casting stones/Bones and what not, and don't even go there with bones, I use chicken bones, because either chicken or human, bones are bones, one is not better then the other. I am also attempting the study of bird's flight and behavior for divination.

And " should we stewart them or just level them before they ( following the nature of beast) level us? "... You mean, kill them off cause they -can't- belive in your god, and they are just animals?

Your opinion of animals is highly disgusting, you sound like you are human, therefore better then anything else on the planet, when a mere wolf is far supeiror to a human. Now, lunge your scripted sabre, if you will.

[musturde]

Come on people, debate like adults! Telekineses is a power of the mind... my friend asked my religion teacha and she was coo bout it. I'll ask my priest also.

Your opinion of animals is highly disgusting, you sound like you are human, therefore better then anything else on the planet, when a mere wolf is far supeiror to a human. Now, lunge your scripted sabre, if you will.

Buy a biography of St. Francis of Assisi.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-...Francis+animals Look at that page.

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/F...stories.asp#bir

Read that

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Francis/

Go to all of that. He still loved humans more than animals.

Edited October 12, 2003 by musturde

[musturde]

"2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone."

From Vatican site

Now heres a simple answer just don't increase upon it, if you can help it stop it, if you can't just don't increase upon it.

[musturde]

I sadly found psychics who claim they can talk to archangels... (net)

[Gaian Dreamer]

I was speaking of Don Johns wording, St. Francis has nothing to do with it. And please, I don't mean to be rude, but compile your posts into one bulk, or edit your first one. Seperate by paragraphs.

And when making a point, make your own point, dont just throw out quotes, links and book refs., it stand to be easily ignored and over looked. I would much rather not have to hop to another website to read preachy stuff. I'd personally like to hear -your- opinions, not quotes and links.

Addition : There seems to be a problem with the Image of your signature, just showing me the link, I belive coding doesn't work in sigs on this fourm. But it might just be my browser.

Edited October 12, 2003 by Gaian Dreamer

[Gaian Dreamer]

(Did you want me to explain more about the fallen angels and the devil or not? I couldn't really tell with your answer....)

I didn't hear you ask to explain anything on Fallen Angels, or the devil, you just explained your opinion of the Devil. But perhap may have over looked it. But Its really not the case.

So now I have a question for you. What makes your patron god and goddess--you said your were Druidic, and I'm not sure what that entails, but I'm guessing you have some sort of god that you pay homage to--what makes your god more desirable than my God? (Just curious here, thats not meant to be rude or anything, just an honest question.)

I am not going to say I am some Professional Druid with many years in it. I am just recently falling into it, for about two years I've had the same beliefs, but no guidance and the sort. So I am learning more and more about it, from what I already knew and know. Druidry, is free, no Dogmas, only Catmas if you will, they belives and rituals that are followed when you want to. When they no longer apply, you don't have to head them.

From what I have gathered is that if you so chose you may be a Pagan Druid, Christian Druid, Jewish Druid, you may pray to what god/s you desire. It seems to be more a lifestyle then a religion. Some people tend to look at certain Christian figures as druids, such as Noah, Abraham. But still Christians.

Within Druidry there are three "sects" if you will. Bards, Ovates and Druids. I myself coming under Ovatus. Mainly focus on it as religion, and working primely in Divination and Healing. But if there is one thing I know that is a ground rule, is holding mother nature, the earth in great respect. Know that each animal is equal, each bird, is as much a part of life as you are.

Which is why a fair percentage of Green Peace and PETA members are druidic.

What I have gathered is that it is old, definatly. Dating back to late BCE, and through out CE. Yes there is no doubt that before there were individual sacrifices, human and animal. But most religions have their bad pasts.

[Don John of Austria]

"So yes, I am Druidic, don't sterotype Druidry though, I dont have a sacred grove, I don't sacrifice people or anything for that matter"

I didn't stereo type it I refer to its practices, If you reject those practices then you reject the heart of the religion you claim to follow, just as if I said I was a catholic but didn't believe in the sacrifice of the Mass.If y ou reject its heart and past traditions then why would you want to be one.

"Current Druidry is a revival, don't act like we are still blood thirtsy"

A revival---- a revival of what, revivals normally try and embrace the original aspects of something not just its name. How can you attemp to revive something when with the next breath you reject it.

"...Do you find the feilds of slain men in the name of God pretty"

WHat are you talking about here? The Crusades perhaps? Well to answer you, yes I think the battlefields of the Crusades were beautiful things, entire feilds of martyrdom for the True Faith in defense agianst Islam and the Cathari. So if that is what you speak of I have no problem with that at all, I do not reject my faith because modernism tells me that those men who died for Christ and His Bride where not in keeping with modern values, I embrace my faith. If you speak of some other thing you will have to more specific.

"Does it bother you to rape your on so you can say they arn't virgins, and thus have just used them to instill a Christian into power?"

What in the hell are you talking about? I can't respond to this because it doesn't make any sense, I will do so as soon you can explain to me what it is about. But Christians have traditionally valued virginity so there would be no motivation to devirginize your own children( I assume thats what you meant, if not please explain further.)

"Focus on the present, Christianity did some screwed up things, far worse then any druid. True, Druids in early CE did scarifice to their god...But it is also true, Christians burned people alive, because they wouldnt convert or head " God's " will, but do go ahead and justify your religion's screw ups and say mine are still bad, thats what your good at."

[ /QUOTE]Well this is kind of a big statment here all jumbled together but here you go, First lets stop talking about Christianity and start talking about Catholicism, I am a CATHOLIC Christian, I speak not for what the Protestants may or may not have done. That being said, please give me specific examples what screwed up things. And no ,no one was ever burned at the stake because they would not convert, if you would like to discuss that further I will be happy to just say the word. Now were people burned at the stake, among other things? Yes, but it was a judicial punishment and not a sacrifice demanded by God. I don't justify my religions screw ups, my religion has never made any screw ups. Individuals who follow my religion do screw up and have screwed up but my religion NEVER has, so there you go.

You see I never said yours was bad, I asked you if you followed the traditions and ways of the Druids it is you who say those things are bad, I never did. If you cannot justify their traditions, even to yourself, then you should reconcider your faith. But don't blame me because you can't.

Well I guess modern pagans arn't but if youu reject druidisms ways how can you claim to be a druid.

well the Idea that Human bones are no better than Chicken bone is bdefenantly NOT in keeping with the ancient Druidic tradition, they belived that human parts( particularly blood) carried speacil power. and divination through bird flight is Roman in origin not Druidic.

No. I mean what I said, we as those who have dominian are obligated to stewart the Earth, but animals have no rights, we have no obligation to any animal in

specific only to the Lords creation in General. Now as to aliens, if it was determined that they were animals decisions would have to be made, what ever the duties of stewartship if an animal can build a starship and a ranged weapon you are going to seriously concider extinction as a viable option. It is no differant that the age old human practice of killing predetors which try and move in to human habitation.

Being human does make me better than anything else( nonhuman) on the

planet. Wolfs are just dogs they have no value beyond the pleasure there existance gives to us and to God. We should stewart them because God made them but not because they are inherently valuable. If wolfs were supiorer to humans then we would be the ones pushed to the fringes and they would own the world but they do not, they are an animal nothing more.

Edited October 12, 2003 by Don John of Austria

[Don John of Austria]

Come on people, debate like adults! Telekineses is a power of the mind... my friend asked my religion teacha and she was coo bout it. I'll ask my priest also

No it is not just a mind powerit is devilry, I have been a religion teacher too, so what. Your priest opinion is equally unmoveing the Church has always rejected it.

[Don John of Austria]

Why didn't my quote quote it instead of saying quote?

[IcePrincessKRS]

(Did you want me to explain more about the fallen angels and the devil or not? I couldn't really tell with your answer....)

I didn't hear you ask to explain anything on Fallen Angels, or the devil, you just explained your opinion of the Devil.  But perhap may have over looked it.  But Its really not the case.

Actually I believe my post was something like "Don't you know how the devil came to be, I can explain of you want." And then I gave a very brief explanation of what the "relationship" between God and the devil is. I did not go into particulars about how the angels fell, so if you want that explanation I'll give it, but since you have not indicated that you do I'm assuming the answer is "no".

And.... not to sound rude, but your religion sounds to me like you can basically just do whatever the heck you want--With the exception of being nice to mother nature, so its kind of more like being a vegetarian or animal-rights activist rather than an actual religion (ie., more of a political thing than religious). So, basically I don't see why you choose to be a Druid rather than a Christian and vegetarian or something like that. I'm sure a large part of it is just because you don't believe in God as Catholics and other Christians do. I guess what I'm trying to say here is what makes your religion a distinct religion rather than just a political stance?

(Sorry if I'm not making much sense here. I'm really trying to be nice and not offensive, because I don't mean to be if it DOES come out that way, I'm just trying to understand your religion a bit better.)

[musturde]

Always have to have it your way don't you Gaian!! St. Francis represented our church (in a way) that's why I mentioned him and I thought you were talking against all of us.

I asked an other priest from a maronite church and he didn't dissaprove of it (tele).

Edited October 12, 2003 by musturde

[IcePrincessKRS]

I sadly found psychics who claim they can talk to archangels... (net)

Just because they claim they can it doesn't mean that they ACTUALLY can. ;)