The Illuminati's Grip.

[Sanvean]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Oct 26 2004, 07:27 PM']I :hearts: your posts.

  tee-hee[/quote]
Aww.... Thank you.

[Laudate_Dominum]

np

[Winchester]

fnord

[God Conquers]

terribly mysterious


they can also break guns in half with their minds

[D0RK4JP2]

Gday,

I think you're all throwing the baby with the bathwater. To put it minimally, the Pope's have taken a far more serious stance on the evils of Freemasonry, so we should at least not joke in a way that discredits our past Holy Father's integrity.

The illuminati branched from freemasonry so they are one in the same at the basis - a naturalistic belief system which is 'irreconcilable with the Church'. It's the same as passing off protestantism is just another branch of Christianity that isn't that bad in their objective heresy.

If they're a subversive movement, and they are, as many pope have affirmed, then why should anyone be confronted with their evils? No, their evils are hidden - they are a type of an occult which means 'that which is hidden'. So laugh all you like, there evils will never come up and bite you, no, that's not what the ideology of subversism is.

I forgot which saint but he stated something very common-sensical. If there is a Church of God, which is one, holy, Catholic and apostolic, then it would be logical for the devil, as he is the ape of God, to create his Church, of Satan, that is divided, unholy (denies the supernatural), hidden from the Masses (in the universal sense) and, as it is divided, has no sense of apostolicity.

How could Satan shine the light of unity on his church when he is the divider himself? He can't, so he cannot offer what he lost from his fall into hell to the members of his Church. They are therefore hidden from another, not knowing they are all apart of his diabolical machine that seeks to destroy the Catholic Church.

This all fits in perfectly with the discipline given to the FM's. They deliberatly lie to their members until they 'suited' to know the 'hidden truth' - the occult.

JMJ.

Edited October 27, 2004 by D0RK4JP2

[Sanvean]

You see, it's exactly this sort of thing that is the source of a very big problem among the Faithful.

Noone is discrediting the integrity of past Popes. However, there is a very big divide between these conspiratorial ramblings about the Illuminati, and the very real problem of freemasonry.

There are a lot of non-Christian groups out there, and an ever growing number of occultists, ranging from naive adolescent Wiccans to Big Bad Ceremonial Magicians. There are sanguinaries out there, and a variety of Satanists(ranging from the arrogant sort of intellectualism promoted by the followers of Lavey to the much rarer variety who actively worship the demonic). It's all bad, and all irreconcilable with the Church.

Noone, at least, noone who is not dangerously mistaken about the nature of the world, is saying otherwise.

Oh, and by the way: Every type of occult means "that which is hidden"... it's the meaning of the term.

But these conspiracy theories? Listen... if you spend so much time worrying about phantom organizations like the Illuminati, you are doing exactly what Satan wants. There really are bigger and badder things to worry about, the real, garden variety evil that out and out saturates our life.

Do you know one of the main reasons why many occultists think of Christianity as a kind of a joke? This kind of nonsense. It's a VERY big leap to go from warning of the dangers of non-Christian groups(and yes, thus, by definition satanic) to outlining worldwide conspiracies. When you get into that sort of thing, people stop listening.

This kind of thing pops up every year, usually around this time of year, no less(gee, I wonder why), and it's dangerous. Deadly dangerous. It's the reason why ex-occultists tend to lay low around October 31s. People keep popping up with sensationalist stories about satantic ritual abuse, the Illuminati, and those wacky witches sacrificing babies every full moon.

And the Faithful, a lot of the time, get caught up in these lies. They are the worst kind of lie... big, blatant, sensationalist... just right for covering up the real evil, which is far more subversive. Far more dangerous. In some Protestant circles, occultists and ex-occultists are often forced through deliverance sessions. People get hurt. Sometimes killed. Usually just scarred.

Of course non-Christian organizations are all part of the movements of darkness in the world. It is, however, absolutely essential to be very careful about the generalizations you make.

You never know who is listening. You never know who you are, in fact, helping drive away from Christ.

A truth coupled with a lie, is still a deception.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='D0RK4JP2' date='Oct 27 2004, 08:34 AM'] I forgot which saint but he stated something very common-sensical. If there is a Church of God, which is one, holy, Catholic and apostolic, then it would be logical for the devil, as he is the ape of God, to create his Church, of Satan, that is divided, unholy (denies the supernatural), hidden from the Masses (in the universal sense) and, as it is divided, has no sense of apostolicity.

[/quote]
interesting point...

[Socrates]

An excellent source of information on the Illuminati and their insidious role in history and the domination of the universe can be found in the film, Laura Croft: Tombraider, with Angelina Jolie.

[D0RK4JP2]

Sanvean, I think you misunderstood what i said.

I am not a conspiracy-theorist.

I believe in subversism because the Pope's do.

I believe that Satan is organised in this world like God's church is, as he is the ape of God.

I believe we need to fear the FM's because they are a tool of the devil.

I fear every type of evil, not just the garden variety, but as well, the evil the lurks in the bushes (in the garden). The devil instigated sin, so i fear all the evil which is a fruit of his instigation.

Experience is enough proof for me. I know how evil FM's are and one of their main tools is subverism.

The evil of freemasonry is like a rock thrown into a pond - you don't always see the rock hit the water, but you'd be blind to not see its ripples.

Socrates: really, i haven't seen that movie, i'll have to take a look. other ones are 'i robot', 'independance day', 'men in black', and 'enemy of the state'. dang! they all star will smith!

JMJ.

[Sanvean]

[quote name='D0RK4JP2' date='Oct 28 2004, 01:51 AM'] Sanvean, I think you misunderstood what i said.

I am not a conspiracy-theorist.

I believe in subversism because the Pope's do.

I believe that Satan is organised in this world like God's church is, as he is the ape of God.

I believe we need to fear the FM's because they are a tool of the devil.

I fear every type of evil, not just the garden variety, but as well, the evil the lurks in the bushes (in the garden). The devil instigated sin, so i fear all the evil which is a fruit of his instigation.

Experience is enough proof for me. I know how evil FM's are and one of their main tools is subverism.

The evil of freemasonry is like a rock thrown into a pond - you don't always see the rock hit the water, but you'd be blind to not see its ripples.
[/quote]
I'm sorry, but I really consider theories concerning conspiracies, like the Illuminati to be, well... conspiracy theories.

I believe that it is absolutely and positively wrong to fear those poor souls involved in Freemasonry. The general people involved in Freemasonry are not evil; rather, they are involved in practicing a great evil. They are all a people deceived and, for the most part, have no idea of the light that they are missing out on.

Certainly, avoid evil, and cling to God lest you get drawn into it, yourself. It is all too easy to fall into the abyss.

If we run around in terror of the Freemasons, however, well... we certainly won't be gaining any converts in the near future. Or... are you one of those sorts of people who believe that occultists are all hopeless cases? I hope not.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

tubal cain

[Socrates]

[quote]Socrates: really, i haven't seen that movie, i'll have to take a look. other ones are 'i robot', 'independance day', 'men in black', and 'enemy of the state'. dang! they all star will smith!Socrates: really, i haven't seen that movie, i'll have to take a look. other ones are 'i robot', 'independance day', 'men in black', and 'enemy of the state'. dang! they all star will smith![/quote]

I was being facetious - it was a really stupid movie (though it did have something to do with Illuminati) The post was just more silliness showing how seriously I take the whole Illuminati think.

[i]From Hell [/i]is a better movie dealing with a (rather outlandish) Masonic conspiracy theory involving Jack the Ripper and Queen Elizabeth I. (The graphic novel is better, but I can't recommend it, as it is graphically obscene.)

[D0RK4JP2]

Gday,

I hope, i reall REALLY hope, i haven't been marked as the wacky CTist. I don't understand why i'm the only one with my point of view . [b]Nothing[/b] i have said is outlandish or even remotely unfactual.

I will give you something factual:

An article called, 'the permanent instruction of the alta vendita' written by an italian secret society the [i]carbonari[/i]. alta vendita was one of their grand lodges. In the churches eyes they are linked with Freemasonry as a subversive secret society, thereby condemned. This document fell into the hands of Pope Gregory XVI and was published by the request of Pope Pius IX.

Pope Leo XIII tell the leaders of the Catholic Church to "tear off the mask from Freemasonry and make plain to all what is really is." Why would our Pope say that if Freemasonry was just a boys club, ineffectual in modern society? He also asked for the P.M.A.V to be printed for all Catholics to know the Carbonari's plan to [i]subvert the Catholic Church[/i]. Wether or not the subversion happened is open to discussion, but that facts are Three popes were alarmed enough by the P.M.A.V enough to warn the flock of its evils.

The P.M.A.V is quite a large document, here is a small quote from it (be prepared to read all of it):

[url="http://au.geocities.com/next_generation_bris/PMAV_quote.htm"]Click Here[/url]

We can all agree now after reading this, that such theories are not fanciful, nutty ideas that nerdy conspiracy theorists make up for attention. however, as this is only a blueprint, the effects are totally open to discussion...

JMJ.

Edited October 29, 2004 by D0RK4JP2

[Socrates]

[quote name='D0RK4JP2' date='Oct 28 2004, 07:45 PM'] Gday,

I hope, i reall REALLY hope, i haven't been marked as the wacky CTist. I don't understand why i'm the only one with my point of view . [b]Nothing[/b] i have said is outlandish or even remotely unfactual.

[/quote]
I was referring to the Jack the Ripper theory used as the basis of From Hell as outlandish, not your posts! (The author of From Hell admits as much, though it does make an entertaining story) I do personally tend not to be too worried about the whole conspiracy thing, though. There is much evil in the world, but I find it unlikely that it is all coordinated behind locked doors by a central comittee of all-powerful people.) - just my opinion though.

Pax,

Socrates

[D0RK4JP2]

Gday,

Thanks m8! i wasn't actually replying to your statement.

I haven't seen from Hell - i was told by some1 yesterday to see that movie too.

Yeh, i might come to the end of all THIS and realise i'm wrong. I'll be happy though that i've searched it out first, cuz i prefer to be certain ya know.

I appreciate your oppinion and there is an element of truth in it. There's gotta be balance somehow between the wacked CT's and how you think. I think it's worthy ground to be covered, to study into all of this stuff, not by visiting UFO sites and crop-circle phenomenon (however mysterious the latter may be), but by reading the necessary Catholic documents, and whatever other documents the leaders of the Church prescribes, to learn about this thing that popes of the 19th & 20th century were so alarmed about.

JMJ.