Leading Cardinal Says Pope In "last Days"

[Dave]

This is from Yahoo News. I sure hope Cardinal Schoenborn is wrong!

Leading Cardinal Says Pope in 'Last Days'

Thu Oct 2, 11:19 AM ET

By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press Writer

VATICAN CITY - A leading European cardinal said Thursday that Pope John Paul II is nearing "the last days and months of his life," the latest prelate to express alarm over the 83-year-old pontiff's health.

The remarks by Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, considered a possible candidate for the papacy, came as John Paul's closest aide sought to minimize growing concern over the pontiff's health.

The pope suffers from Parkinson's disease and has looked increasingly weak in the past month.

"The entire world is experiencing a pope who is sick, who is disabled and who is dying — I don't know how near death he is — who is approaching the last days and months of his life," Schoenborn told Austrian state broadcaster ORF.

The cardinal's spokesman, Erich Leitenberger, later told The Associated Press that the comments were "to be interpreted philosophically."

Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, who has been the pope's secretary since John Paul was a cardinal in Poland, made a rare statement to reporters Thursday while the pontiff was meeting with the president of Lithuania.

Asked about the pope's health, Dziwisz referred to comments attributed by a German magazine to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger that John Paul was "in a bad way" and that the faithful should pray for him.

"Cardinal Ratzinger was crying yesterday, explaining that he never gave an interview but merely answered someone he met on the street saying, 'If the pope is sick, pray for him,'" Dziwisz said.

"Many journalists who in the past have written about the pope's health are already in heaven," Dziwisz said.

The pope looked relaxed and alert during his meeting with President Rolandas Paksas, which lasted 15 minutes and was one of four appointments on the pope's schedule Thursday.

The Vatican announced the pope will preside at the installation of 30 new cardinals he named Sunday, saying the ceremony will be held Oct. 21 on the steps of St. Peter's Basilica. The following day, he will preside at a Mass with the cardinals in St. Peter's Square.

John Paul looked alert and spirited throughout his two-hour general audience Wednesday. He skipped the traditional audience the previous week because of what the Vatican described as a mild intestinal ailment.

In Paris on Wednesday, the head of the governing body for the Catholic Church in France said John Paul is "very ill" but still able to lead.

"Things shouldn't be hidden. This pope is very ill," Bishop Stanislas Lalane said on Europe-1 radio. "But I assure you, the church is governed."

Edited October 2, 2003 by Dave

[L-5]

We've heard this time and time again. This man has shown us over and over again that the doomsayers were wrong. JP2 will meet us young people in Germany in 2005.

[Theologian in Training]

I hate to say it, but the poor man is ready to die. I love the Pope, so don't get me wrong, but he has done more for the Church than many will do if they were given 10 lifetimes. In a sense, it seems we have grown so attached to him that we fear what will happen when he is gone. It is then we also must remember that it is ultimately Christ's Church and not the Pope's.

It may sound strange, but I almost feel sorry for all those that are praying for him to keep on living. I mean if anyone has demonstrated the virtue of long-suffering it is definitely the Pope. Even Padre Pio was eventually given reprieve. Granted, our Pope is a strong man, and I am sure can deal with even more pain, but have you seen him lately? He just doesn't look healthy, he can't talk, walk, I mean all he wants to do is rest.

Perhaps our prayer should be that if it is God's Will, the Pope may depart from this world, so that he may eternally rest in peace, and join all those Saints he canonized in the presence of the Holy Trinity, and Our Holy Mother Mary.

God Bless

[BLAZEr]

If the pope had a nickel for every person who's ever called his death . . . well, he'd have a heck of a lot of nickels. Millions of 'em probably. Every 18 months or so the Media goes haywire . . . THE POPES GONNA DIE SOON! and yet, the Father lets him keep plugging away. Just so you all know, the last time there was a big Pope's gonna die frenzy was right before WYD Toronto and he kicked butt like crazy those 4 days. And he also Began the Year of the Rosary with an Apostolic Letter and put the Finishing Touches on an Encyclical on the Eucharist . . . man, I hope someone says I'm gonna die soon, maybe I'll get something accomplished!

[BLAZEr]

I hate to say it, but the poor man is ready to die. I love the Pope, so don't get me wrong, but he has done more for the Church than many will do if they were given 10 lifetimes. In a sense, it seems we have grown so attached to him that we fear what will happen when he is gone. It is then we also must remember that it is ultimately Christ's Church and not the Pope's.

Sorry TheoInTraining . . . I have to take issue:

First, who wouldn't want to die and be with God after a life of extraordinary holiness? But the simple fact of it is that This Pope has the courage, not only to face death, but to face life in all his weakness and pain and suffering. It seems odd to pray for death for anyone? Wouldn't the prayer be for the relief of suffering? And let God decide the remedy?

It isn't the first time I've heard this argument disguised as a charitable piety. The fact of the matter is, God decides death and life not us. Our job is to cherish life and foster life and encourage life at every minute. Our job is to look at the pope in all his fraility and see the Face of Christ as resplendent as ever. I am sure you believe the same thing TheoinTraining, but your statement seems to discount the value of his life hidden under the mysterious vale of suffering and age and weakness. I am not sure if any of us, at the foot of the Cross, would wish Christ to have died a few minutes sooner . . .

Theres a story, it may be apocryphal, but it has some Cardinal asking the pope why he put himself through such a hectic schedule. The Cardinal says something to the effect of "Holy Father, you are weak, you are old, you are tired and you have already given the Church so much. You are in so much pain. Why don't you slow down and spend the rest of your days in rest and prayer." and the Pope responds "Because Christ did not come down from the Cross."

That's JP2. That's John Paul The Great. That's Holiness. That's why I love him. That's what I'm after.

[Theologian in Training]

Sorry TheoInTraining . . . I have to take issue:

First, who wouldn't want to die and be with God after a life of extraordinary holiness? But the simple fact of it is that This Pope has the courage, not only to face death, but to face life in all his weakness and pain and suffering. It seems odd to pray for death for anyone? Wouldn't the prayer be for the relief of suffering? And let God decide the remedy?

It isn't the first time I've heard this argument disguised as a charitable piety. The fact of the matter is, God decides death and life not us. Our job is to cherish life and foster life and encourage life at every minute. Our job is to look at the pope in all his fraility and see the Face of Christ as resplendent as ever. I am sure you believe the same thing TheoinTraining, but your statement seems to discount the value of his life hidden under the mysterious vale of suffering and age and weakness. I am not sure if any of us, at the foot of the Cross, would wish Christ to have died a few minutes sooner . . .

Theres a story, it may be apocryphal, but it has some Cardinal asking the pope why he put himself through such a hectic schedule. The Cardinal says something to the effect of "Holy Father, you are weak, you are old, you are tired and you have already given the Church so much. You are in so much pain. Why don't you slow down and spend the rest of your days in rest and prayer." and the Pope responds "Because Christ did not come down from the Cross."

That's JP2. That's John Paul The Great. That's Holiness. That's why I love him. That's what I'm after.

I am sorry you take issue with what I said, but I still stand by what I said. Also, I did not say it to disguise it as "charitable piety," and would like in the future that you refrain from direct attacks like that, because even though you may not agree with me, there is no reason to accuse me of saying something I did not say.

As you did say, I do believe in the redemptive quality of suffering and I do believe that God always has the final say, so whether he lives or dies is, of course, contingent on God's Will. However, I also think the Pope is ready to die, and may actually be in the dying process. In fact, the Pope did make reference to the inevitability of his dying soon a couple of months ago. I was merely making reference to the fact that some people do not die until they are ready to let go, and speculating that the Pope may be hesitant to actually "let go."

Yes, it is God's decision, but isn't possible that with someone like the Pope God may be allowing him to continue living because the Pope has not fully resigned himself. In fact, it was only after Jesus said, "It is done" that He thereafter said, "Father, into Your hands I commend my spirit."

Just a thought.

God Bless

[BLAZEr]

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. I am sorry to have offended you.

I did not mean to "attack" you or imply that you said something you didn't. In fact, I wasn't even thinnking of you when I said that "I've heard this argument before disguised as Charitable piety" . . . I was merely trying to suggest that I've heard people, trying to be pious and charitable, say that it would be "better if he/she died."

I think this is teetering on thin ice and I just wanted to point out that your post appeared to be saying that. It would probably have been better if I had sent you a PM rather then make this claim in the open forum.

And I am sure JP2 is saying every day "Fathr, into your hands I commend my spirit." I don't think he's holding on. But I also don't think it's us "holding on" to wish him as long a life as possible, even one clothed in his frail body. I may be wrong, in fact I don't doubt that I am, but I think its always best to hope for life to be longer and better and more comfortable for everyone. Old pope, young baby, everyone.

Again, I'm sorry for the tone of my post. I really did mean it in all charity, pious and otherwise!

[jmjtina]

I'm praying I'll see him in Germany 2005. I love him, and like a child that wants her Holy Father I'll pray for ultimately God's Will. (and hoping he'll stay around a lot longer.) :(

[FreeSoul]

God bless JPII.

I hope that he is kept safe...and that God is taking a nice walk with him down the end of the road. No point in thinking about when. Just prepare for it by living the Good life.

[Donna]

I'm with Theo.

[jmjtina]

Perhaps our prayer should be that if it is God's Will, the Pope may depart from this world, so that he may eternally rest in peace, and join all those Saints he canonized in the presence of the Holy Trinity, and Our Holy Mother Mary.

Amen. He'll do TONS more up in heaven. I love him. God Bless Our Holy Father, the good humble servant.

[L-5]

You know when the doctors told John XXIII that he was dying, he said "That's okay, I always keep my bags packed". I don't think anyone's holding on, or refraining from letting go. I think JP2 is in the dying process insofar as we are all in the dying process. His mind is still as sharp as ever and could churn out another set of groundbreaking encyclicals if he wanted. I think he's just saving his energy for a busy October, just like how he saved his energy before a busy World Youth Week in Toronto last year.

[ryanmeyersmusic]

we all realize that the Holy Father doesn't actually pen those entire encyclicals, right?

[BLAZEr]

Sorry Ryan, that's not true. The Holy Father does inDouche write his own encyclicals. JP2 is smart smart smart so he has written more than most popes, but he does write them himself and then offers them to various people for input and consultation. He's an academic, it's their way. And I heard from someone in the know that the Holy Father wrote the last Encyclical on the Eucharist completely in his own hand. I'm sure these things will be archived after he dies . . .

By the way: Raymond Arroyo from EWTN wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal today on the Holy Father frailty . . . it's quite good:

Raymond Arroyo on JP2

[Lil Red]

For nearly 25 years, John Paul II has taught the world how to live. He is now teaching it how to die. For some who gloried in the towering, robust Polish pope of days gone by, it is a difficult lesson to take. The involuntary trembling, the incomprehensible speech, the chin buried in the chest are painful sights; but to the pope such suffering is "a necessary gift" and a tool of redemption.

The active papacy may be ending, but the suffering, interior papacy has only begun. The twilight of his reign may be the most affecting and efficacious period of his long pontificate.

-_-

For a long time, our culture has been afraid of death. I agree that JP2 still has a lot to teach us.

(Emphasis mine)

Edited October 3, 2003 by llrddvl@stpius