Scripture verses extra Biblical Traditions

[Benedict]

And you owe Marti and me a response and end to the discussion on Mary before you decide to try that one here too.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Oct 21 2004, 08:01 PM'] Rich, my friend, you have a great deal to learn. Almost none of the Catholics on this board came to the point we are at today in ignorance. Many of us are converts from fundamentalist backrounds. [/quote]
Ita vero. Nescit quod faceret...

[Benedict]

Some help with nescit. I think I know the rest.

[Brother Adam]

my latin is a little rusty. . .

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Oct 23 2004, 09:24 AM'] my latin is a little rusty. . . [/quote]


It said, "truly indeed. He knows not what he does..."

[Quietfire]

[quote]Rapheal,
your agrument would make sense if Scripture was from man. However it is not, Scripture is from God. Man either accepts it or rejects it. Man does not create Scripture, it is from God.[/quote]

Dont tell me you think the Bible fell from the sky too?


WHO wrote down the inspired word of God?
WHO protected it and composed it into a book?
That book you hold that you call the Holy Bible is a collaberation of letters and such written in human form of words by Catholics for Catholics inspired by God.

Would you take a Stephen King book and claim he didnt know what he was writing about (probably not the best analogy-but let's run with it, shall we?) and then go out and convince all your friends and loved ones that your version of it is the right way?

Seriously, use some common sense.

Why do you assume that you know better than the Catholics (you know, the first Christians-the Apostles) who actually wrote, studied, preserved, protected and passed down Holy Scripture? They knew what they were writing, they were being led by the Holy Spirit and were teaching all that and more far earlier than the books were compiled.

Now, you come along and claim your version of it is the right way?

Seriously, use some common sense.

Peace.

[mulls]

[quote name='frozencell' date='Oct 22 2004, 08:44 AM'] I think the Bible is a great tool by itself for beginning a walk with God. Kind of like a 1st grade math book. But as we mature and grow in our faith we are able to progress into more in depth Christian learning. More like being in college. It's rare that you're going to pass a college class by learning and studying ONLY what's in that $150 book. [/quote]
do you have the bible all figured out? are you done reading it?


if so, can i study under you?


because i would love to be so smart that i could equate the Word of God to a 1st grade math book.





the lack of respect is truly impressive.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='mulls' date='Oct 23 2004, 03:31 PM'] do you have the bible all figured out? are you done reading it?


if so, can i study under you?


because i would love to be so smart that i could equate the Word of God to a 1st grade math book.





the lack of respect is truly impressive. [/quote]
Mulls, it might sound disrespectful, but if you had any idea what context it was in...the truth in the Sacraments alone...the Scriptures are so...not incomplete...but just out of context of the much more beautiful things going on...

The Scriptures are like a description of the truth that comes through Tradition...

I love the quote, "while Protestants read the menu, Catholics enjoy the meal..."

It's so true...

[Benedict]

Another tidbit for my Catholic Quotes page.

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='rich lk 11 28' date='Oct 21 2004, 03:09 PM'] There ar no "extra Biblical Traditions" that are neccessary for Salvation or the Church of Jesus Christ.

You can test this, take a peice of paper and write down your list of Traditions that challenge this.

I am interested in your response to this. [/quote]
It's great to be back guys! With 4 AP classes, marching band, and scouts, time is limited. In regards to your comment, I would first like to ask you where in the Holy Bible does it state that God's word is expressed only through scripture? Of course the Bible is infallibe; however, it is not the only means of spreading the word of God. For centuries, the Jews passed down tradition and sacred teachings through the word of mouth not by scripture. In fact, all of the books in the Bible were written at a later date than when the actual events occured- sometimes centuries after! I would also like to bring up the common misconception of Catholics banning the Bible prior to the Reformation. This statement is unfair and absolutely invalid. The Gutenburg Press wasn't even around then . Monks spent their whole lives copying scripture by hand which caused the Bibles to cost thousands of dollars. The Catholic Church has not only promoted Scripture throught its history but it was the one Church that compiled the Bible under Constantine in the early centuries. To cut down to the chase, the Word was spread via mouth not by scripture before the Bible was compiled by the Roman Catholic Church. Today, numerous traditions and Sacred Traditions are still being passed down. Not a single Tradition in the Church contradicts a single verse in Bible. May God Bless!

conservativecatholic

Edited October 24, 2004 by conservativecatholic

[Katholikos]

[b]Question: [/b] Why do you believe this COLLECTION of disparate writings, written by different individuals at different times and places, for different audiences and purposes, is [b][i]collectively[/i][/b] the "inspired Word of God?"

[b]Protestant answer:[/b] I believe it on faith (I believe it because I believe it.)

[b]Catholic answer:[/b] I believe it because the Church founded by Jesus Christ teaches that it is true.

The Church herself wrote, selected, and canonized 27 of her own writings and named them the "New Testament." She [i][b]knows[/b][/i] they were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit because she is their author.

At the same time, the Church named the Greek Septuagint Scriptures she had inherited from Jesus and the Apostles the "Old Testament." Jesus and the Apostles [i][b]knew[/b][/i] that these writings were Scripture; i.e., that they were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. After all, Jesus is God!

And the Catholic Church named her entire collection -- both OT and NT -- "ta biblia" -- the Bible.

But the written word does not contain God's entire Revelation. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are equally the Word of God.

Who says so? The Church founded by Christ that produced the Bible.

Sola Scriptura? It's historically untrue. It is a myth born of the 16th century "Deformers."

The Church was nearly 400 years old before the Bible as we know it came into existence. The Church was the AGENCY of the Holy Spirit in the production of the Bible. God gave us His written Word through the Church.

JMJ Likos
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Benedict' date='Oct 23 2004, 05:31 PM'] Another tidbit for my Catholic Quotes page. [/quote]
It's from Scott Hahn, make sure you attribute it to him.

[Theoketos]

Rich Welcome to Phatmass,

Sorry if we have overwhelmed you, there are many of us...

...Still I have an honest question.

If St. Mark speaks about traditions of man, does he not imply that there are traditions of God?

I think that this all comes down to what the Church is and what authority does she have.



[quote name='"St Mark 7:7-9"']In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts.'

You disregard God's commandment but cling to human tradition."

He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition! [/quote]

Honestly, the Church has the Authority of God...thus her traditions are those not of man.

Remember what St. Paul said in his letter to Timothy3:15 , [quote]
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, [b]the pillar and foundation of truth.[/b] [/quote]


I will trust the Church in what she says God ment and said, no one else.

[noncatholicname]

[quote]But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. [/quote]

Take out the commas and read it again. This is an ascending passage, household > Church > God. God is the pillar and foundation of truth.

[Theoketos]

Exactly....

God is the foundation of the Truth, is the foundation of the Church, is the Foundation of the Family...

If we are going to talk about family and the Church I think we should look to the holy Father... I recomend reading the whole document [i]Familiaris Consortio[/i][url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html"](Link)[/url], but here is a snipit which should suffice.

[quote]The Broader Communion of the Family

21. Conjugal communion constitutes the foundation on which is built the broader communion of the family, of parents and children, of brothers and sisters with each other, of relatives and other members of the household.

This communion is rooted in the natural bonds of flesh and blood, and grows to its specifically human perfection with the establishment and maturing of the still deeper and richer bonds of the spirit: the love that animates the interpersonal relationships of the different members of the family constitutes the interior strength that shapes and animates the family communion and community.

The Christian family is also called to experience a new and original communion which confirms and perfects natural and human communion. In fact the grace of Jesus Christ, "the first-born among many brethren "(56) is by its nature and interior dynamism "a grace of brotherhood," as St. Thomas Aquinas calls it.(57) The Holy Spirit, who is poured forth in the celebration of the sacraments, is the living source and inexhaustible sustenance of the supernatural communion that gathers believers and links them with Christ and with each other in the unity of the Church of God. The Christian family constitutes a specific revelation and realization of ecclesial communion, and for this reason too it can and should be called "the domestic Church."(58)

All members of the family, each according to his or her own gift, have the grace and responsibility of building, day by day, the communion of persons, making the family "a school of deeper humanity"(59): this happens where there is care and love for the little ones, the sick, the aged; where there is mutual service every day; when there is a sharing of goods, of joys and of sorrows.

A fundamental opportunity for building such a communion is constituted by the educational exchange between parents and children,(60) in which each gives and receives. By means of love, respect and obedience towards their parents, children offer their specific and irreplaceable contribution to the construction of an authentically human and Christian family.(61) They will be aided in this if parents exercise their unrenounceable authority as a true and proper "ministry," that is, as a service to the human and Christian well-being of their children, and in particular as a service aimed at helping them acquire a truly responsible freedom, and if parents maintain a living awareness of the "gift" they continually receive from their children.

Family communion can only be preserved and perfected through a great spirit of sacrifice. It requires, in fact, a ready and generous openness of each and all to understanding, to forbearance, to pardon, to reconciliation. There is no family that does not know how selfishness, discord, tension and conflict violently attack and at times mortally wound its own communion: hence there arise the many and varied forms of division in family life. But, at the same time, every family is called by the God of peace to have the joyous and renewing experience of "reconciliation," that is, communion reestablished, unity restored. In particular, participation in the sacrament of Reconciliation and in the banquet of the one Body of Christ offers to the Christian family the grace and the responsibility of overcoming every division and of moving towards the fullness of communion willed by God, responding in this way to the ardent desire of the Lord: "that they may be one."(62) [/quote]