*teen4Christ* Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I know a ton of guys who try not to look and they do an awesome job. but it is hard I mean really hard for a guy not to look. We just have 2 dress modestly and if they look it wont be our fault. but if a guy looks at you and has a bad thought and he saw your skin from like just under your neck to like just before your knees then you have the sin just has bad as he does!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I mean, looking doesn't always mean lusting, sometimes it can also mean admiring. Of course there are those sicko perverts who just keep staring and can't look away (i.e. volohumilisesse), but also there's admiring the curves that grace a woman's body. I mean, God made women with curves and yes, they're [u]supposed[/u] to be sexually attractive to us, even before marriage otherwise how would we know they're sexually attractive? Doesn't mean we lust over them, just means we admire them for being what they are, women. Anything else is just feminism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='Phazzan' date='Oct 18 2004, 11:59 PM'] Of course there are those sicko perverts who just keep staring and can't look away (i.e. volohumilisesse) [/quote] he would never!! phazzan!! dont be mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Oct 19 2004, 08:24 AM'] he would never!! phazzan!! dont be mean [/quote] But being mean is fun, hughey! I like being mean. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='Phazzan' date='Oct 19 2004, 08:26 AM'] But being mean is fun, hughey! I like being mean. :-D [/quote] :nono: :shame: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='Phazzan' date='Oct 19 2004, 08:26 AM'] But being mean is fun, hughey! I like being mean. :-D [/quote] :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duc_In_Altum Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote]I don't understand why we have to dress in sacks so that guys won't be tempted. WHY CAN'T THEY CONTROL THEMSELVES?? [/quote] a just question indeed. The truth of the matter is that its the way we are. Sorry. guys naturally find women attractive. And that's nobody's fault. Not even the Romans (a quote from monty python's life of brian). Our genetic and hormonal makeup, through instinct, feeds this attraction. It's also part of our society that we have been raised on that our eyes and minds tend to wander. Not to make excuses, but moreso to produce a wider perspective and try to understand the opposite gender. Through a sort of reciprocal determination, human behavior has been proven to be affected by our environment and therefore, our liberal and sexually casual society has a direct impact. That requires us to fight natural temptation to lock on. Its all a matter of deciding what is of God and what is of satan. We must make that choice every time we face temptation. When we look through natural instinct and formation, we have to always dismiss it. We have our role to play and so do women. We have to dismiss our temptations when they naturally come to us. We humbly ask the help of women to dress modestly for the sake of their dignity and our weak flesh. Basically, if you had the opportunity to save someone from swimming in a lake of fire for all eternity, would you do it? I hope so. We need holy women to help hold us accountable. Without holy women, holy men fail easily. I hope this helps you understand us a little more. In faith, hope, and most of all, love, -Joe (a guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattosika Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Oct 18 2004, 09:32 PM'] in all defense of you ladies, its also on us guys to be aware of our gazes so that your choice in dress is not so limited [/quote] dido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 The blame isn't soley on the females, but also on the males. Females should have common sense (*really* tight clothing for example), but no matter what you wear... guys will still look. It's not a sin for a guy to [b]look[/b], it's a sin for him to [b]lust[/b]. Don't women [b]look[/b] at guys too? Should we wear giant socks over our bodies? No, just use common sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Oct 19 2004, 02:12 PM'] The blame isn't soley on the females, but also on the males. Females should have common sense (*really* tight clothing for example), but no matter what you wear... guys will still look. It's not a sin for a guy to [b]look[/b], it's a sin for him to [b]lust[/b]. Don't women [b]look[/b] at guys too? Should we wear giant socks over our bodies? No, just use common sense! [/quote] Paladin brings up an interesting point. We cannot dismiss the body as being something inherently sinful, as it is created by God, so it is not in fact intrinsically sinful to look. However, this pretty much is an "in a perfect world" situation. Christopher West, in [u]Theology of the Body for Beginners[/u], points out that if original sin had not occurred, if we were not fallen, we would still all be nude. We would see one another nude all the time and none of us would mind. Why? Because we would look on one another with love. In this situation, a man might look at a woman still, but what he would see is not a collection of body parts, but an image of God. In fact, seeing one another in the nude, when in the purity of God's original plan, would glorify God, and not work against Him. West points out that a woman in the shower is nude without having any problems with it, but if a man enters the bathroom, she covers herself up immediately. He is quick to point out that it is not because she feels shame or because her body is evil and should not be seen. It is because, instead, that she does not want her body to be brought down by his most likely lustful thoughts. She does not want her body, and image of God, to be tarnished. In her hiding her body, she does not want to insult it as being evil or dirty, but she wishes, on the other hand, to show how much it is worth and how, because of its intrinsic good, it should be protected from causing scandal. Therefore, in her instinctive reaction to cover herself, we see that, despite what some misguided theologians may tell us, she is recognizing at the deepest level of her mind, the inherent good in her body. How can this be practically applied? A person must remember that while we devout Catholics may (or may not) be able to love another purely, most of humanity will feel lust. It is therefore wise to cover oneself to avoid the sin of scandal. It is also wise to cover oneself so that we may give the sight of our bodies to only one person. As is the general rule, the best gifts come wrapped and only one person can unwrap them. This helps our attention to focus on giving that gift to a special person God has given us. Some refrain from marriage and choose celibacy. This is not a rejection of marriage, but a marriage which reflects our eternal glory with God in a different way. When we reach Heaven, we will cooperate as well as we can in giving of ourselves and receiving one another and God. This is what the Eucharist does for us now, but we cannot experience the full gift of the Eucharist because we are most often unable to give completely of ourselves (the more we give ourselves away to God, the more room we will have in us to hold Him). Therefore, we must be modest, because we do not wish to scandalize and because in our modesty, we will help to focus attention on the correct things for the correct people. Practically speaking, looking may not be intrinsically wrong, as Paladin stated, but we are fallen and should avoid even the occasion of sin. In addition, even if we could look without lusting, but only having love (and that love would have to include love for the whole person), the person at whom we are looking may think that we have lust in our hearts, and therefore we should not look, because it could drive them to scandal, as well. Christopher West states that many people trying to avoid lust look away very diligently, and that if that is necessary, it is better that they avoid all visual contact than cause themselves to sin. However, he points out that we should not have to look away, if we have love and not lust. Chances are, though, that most of us have not reached that level. Furthermore, if we truly do love, we will most likely be looking at the eyes, anyway, since that is a common human characteristic for showing respect and love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='azaelia' date='Oct 18 2004, 11:21 PM'] Skirts make it easier to look up at what's underneath... [/quote] Only if you are standing over someone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Oct 19 2004, 03:31 PM'] Only if you are standing over someone... [/quote] Or sitting down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Oct 19 2004, 03:32 PM'] Or sitting down... [/quote] Then she is either not sitting very ladylike or her skirt is too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Oct 19 2004, 03:36 PM'] Then she is either not sitting very ladylike or her skirt is too short. [/quote] or she's sitting a little bit higher than you... Either way, I don't look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I still get leered at more in skirts than pants. And I mean modest skirts, at least knee length (I only own 1 shorter than that and I haven't worn it in about 2 years). I think its sad that some people can't control their gaze even when we are trying to be modest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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