CatholicAndFanatical Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 And you get this how skuba steve? Looking back through the posts I dont see any contridictions, if there happen to be two Catholics with different idea's on a matter, at least we have somewhere to turn to get the skinny and set us both straight. But thanks for not adding anything productive to this thread or giving your thoughts on the topic at hand. CatholicAndFanatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 but... drunk depends on the person... just because someone is .08 does not mean their drunk... Tell that to the POLICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Tell that to the POLICE! LOL... I'm not talking about driving.... Your Servent in Christ, ironmonk and steve... No Catholic here contradicted another Catholic. And if we did, so what... we are laymen, laymen sometimes make mistakes on what the teachings are. Contradiction is you say white and I say black.... what you might have seen here is different ways of explaining the same thing... that is not contradiction. Sometimes Catholic laymen will contradict other Catholic laymen... the Catholic Church does not Contradict itself... the Catholic Church as in the teaching authority given by God. Your Servent in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Every individual will express his beliefs in his own words, so no two posts will be identical. But I see nothing contradictory in our posts. You must be misinterpretting their words, cuz we all believe exactly the same doctrines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReformationNow Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Tell that to the POLICE! I did. It didn't work! j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 We forgive you, because you do not know what you do. Read St. John 6:66... that is who you are counted with. -ironmonk right... nice use of scripture! maybe read the rest of your bible one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 right... nice use of scripture! maybe read the rest of your bible one day... Trooper, It is sad that is all you can say.... Stop wasting our time. Are you swine or sheep? Sheep of God listen and look for truth, they pray on it, they pay attention to the facts. Swine are ignorant and ingore the facts and come here only to argue. Your reply is full of folly, and lacks any knowledge. I've been reading the bible over and over for 24 years. Here's a little ditty for you.... rebut with logical scripture - or shut up. I believe all of what Jesus said.... St. Matt 16:18 "And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock (Kephas) I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it." 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Jesus is speaking directly to Peter here, this english version has been translated 3 times... Originally in Aramaic (Kephas = rock)... Then the Greek were we get the different endings of 'Petros', one is masculine and one is feminine... following proper grammer they could not give Peter the feminine and that is why there is a differnence in the Greek to English... An Aramaic to English would read "...you are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church..." Peter's name in Aramaic was Kepha/Cephas as shown in John's Gospel and in Paul's letter to the Cornithians. Aramic is what was spoken and it means Rock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John 1:42 Then he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon the son of John; 30 you will be called Kephas" (which is translated Peter). The argument that Jesus was not calling Peter the Rock is wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John 21:15 8 9 10 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." 16 He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." 17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep." This also shows the same as with St. Matt 16:18 that Peter was the leader of the Apostles after Jesus went to Heaven. Peter was the first Pope. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- St. Matt 28:18 11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." We believe that when Jesus said this to the Apostles, that the Church will always be around and in every Nation from the first Christians on... and that Jesus will always guide the Church... If Jesus is guiding the Church, then the official teaching of the Church cannot be wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" We believe that if someone rejects the Church after seeing the Truth, through their own fault, that they are denying Jesus. Now, say for example someone is baptist and honestly believes (through no fault of their own) that the baptist church is the Church that Jesus started, then they are Catholic by desire... They have the desire to know the truth and if they are taught that the lie is the truth, then it's not their fault. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt 5:13 11 12 "You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. 14 You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. We believe that the True Church that Jesus built will be visable for all to see, that it has been visible since the time of the Apostles... The Catholic Church is the only Church that is 2000 years old... The Catholic Church is the "City set on a Mountain that cannot be hidden." All through history, the Catholic Church has been there, all other Christian churches are less than 400 years old and they do not have a unity of faith. Ephesians 4:1 1 I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, 3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: 4 2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. ---------- What does the Bible say the Pillar and Truth is??? - The Church... 1 Tim 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What does the Church that Christ built look like???? ..... It has Bishops, Priests, and Deacons. Bishops (episcopoi) have the care of multiple congregations and appoint, ordain, and discipline priests and deacons. They are often called "evangelists" in the New Testament. Examples of first-century bishops include Timothy and Titus (1 Tim. 5:19–22; 2 Tim. 4:5; Titus 1:5). Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as "presbyters" or "elders." In fact, the English term "priest" is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. They have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15). Deacons (diakonoi) are the assistants of the bishops and are responsible for teaching and administering certain Church tasks, such as the distribution of food (Acts 6:1–6). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is hierarchical. Matt. 16:18; 18:18 - Jesus uses "ecclesia" only twice in the NT. This proves Jesus intended a visible, unified, hierarchical, and authoritative Church. 1 Cor. 12:28 - God Himself appoints the various positions of authority within the Church. God gives His children authority. Eph. 4:11 - Church is hierarchical and includes apostles, prophets, pastors, and teachers, all charged to build up the Church. Phil. 1:1 - Paul addresses the bishops and deacons of the Church. They can all trace their unbroken lineage back to the apostles. 1 Tim. 3:1; Titus 1:7 - Christ's Church has bishops (episcopoi) who are direct successors of the apostles. The bishops can trace the authority conferred upon them back to the apostles. 1 Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5; James 5:14 - Christ's Church also has elders or priests (presbuteroi) who serve the bishops. 1 Tim. 3:8 - Christ's Church also has deacons (diakonoi). His Church has a hierarchy of authority - bishops, priests and deacons. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It has the Body and Blood of Christ - The Real Presence John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever." ..... ...... 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." 66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Church (Clergy - disciples) can forgive sins.... St John 20:21 (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. 23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." St James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. St. Matt 28:18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." Matt. 18:18 "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It will never be overcome by the Netherworld, it will be like a city on a mountain for all time, it will be Guided by Christ; it will even speak for Christ - It will have ONE Faith.... St. Matt 16:18 "And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock(Kephas) I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it." John 21:15 8 9 10 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." 16 He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." 17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep." St. Matt 28:18 11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" Matt 5:13 11 12 "You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. 14 You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Ephesians 4:1 1 I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, 3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: 4 2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only One Church, One Faith... has been around almost 2000 years and can fit what the Church in the Bible "looks" like... it can be seen today... The Catholic Church.... built by Christ, on Peter and the Apostles. ------------------------------------------ St John 20:21 (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. 23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." The Holy Spirit guides me to see the above verse to mean that "As the Father has sent Jesus, Jesus sends His Disciples"... Why did the Father send Jesus?.... To forgive us our sins. I also see that in verse 23, pretty clearly. St James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. Presbyters....aka...Priests.... Acts 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. 1 Tim 6:12 Compete well for the faith. Lay hold of eternal life, to which you were called when you made the noble confession in the presence of many witnesses. 1 John 1:8 If we say, "We are without sin," we deceive ourselves, 3and the truth is not in us. 9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing. 10 If we say, "We have not sinned," we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. St. Matt 28:18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." Matt. 18:18 "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" -------------------------- And a couple verse hand picked for you... Proverbs 15:2 The tongue of the wise pours out knowledge, but the mouth of geniuses spurts forth folly. Proverbs 26:4 Answer not the fool according to his folly, lest you too become like him. 5 Answer the fool according to his folly, lest he become wise in his own eyes. St. Matt 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, or throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and turn and tear you to pieces. [6] Dogs and swine were Jewish terms of contempt for Gentiles. This saying may originally have derived from a Jewish Christian community opposed to preaching the gospel (what is holy, pearls) to Gentiles. In the light of Matthew 28:19 that can hardly be Matthew's meaning. He may have taken the saying as applying to a Christian dealing with an obstinately impenitent fellow Christian (Matthew 18:17). folly n 1: the trait of acting stupidly or rashly Thanks for Playing, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 The facts arent good enough for ignoramuses, they only want what they want and that's their own version of the truth ,which is unacceptable. There's only one true Church, you are either in the barque of Peter or your swimming with the sharks!!! Which is the position of those who leave Peter for Judas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 wow, u DONT wanna try 2 tell ironmonk he doesn't read the Bible he's liable to post the whole thing from memory! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 you all try to tell us about what we believe, but you don't even fully understand what you believe yourselves.. oh, and i got suspended for less than the way you lot treat everyone. thats a contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 you all try to tell us about what we believe, but you don't even fully understand what you believe yourselves.. oh, and i got suspended for less than the way you lot treat everyone. thats a contradiction. Of course we understand what we believe! Steve, where would you get an idea like that? And how have we mistreated anyone? True, there have been times we've gotten mad and stuff, but let's face it, dude -- you incited a lot of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 you are a self-rightous fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I'm sorry you feel that way. God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 ok dude you shouldnt even be called a Christian. Why you gotta aproach us like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 you all try to tell us about what we believe, but you don't even fully understand what you believe yourselves.. oh, and i got suspended for less than the way you lot treat everyone. thats a contradiction. No one here has tried to tell you what you believe. Did you just get back from bizzaro world? I think you need to seek professional help... you've got some interaction issues... maybe an english tudor would help? It appears you do not understand what we write. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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