ironmonk Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 As long as flour and grapes are on the earth there will be unleaven bread and wine. To question about what would happen if all the unleaven bread and wine was no longer on earth is a question to simply argue for the sake of arguing, without any regard for the truth or to learn. Do you want to change for Christ or be full of foolish pride?. Don't waste our time. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 (edited) Never mind i dont wanna get kicked off Phatmass. Edited October 2, 2003 by Mc-Just†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 ,Oct 2 2003, 06:55 AM] Um, please explain the link between the gates of hell not prevailing against the church, and agriculture and viticulture? God takes care of the sparrows and the lilies of the fields, jas. We do not fear that He will abandon us, if we are following His commands. Why would He, the Giver of wheat and grapes, and the Giver of Himself on the Cross, deny us the very products that He instructed us to use? You make it sound as though God isn't in control. He knows our needs even before we ask. He knows we need grapes and wheat for liturgical wine and unleavened bread. Will He abandon us, and leave us without the fruits of His bounty so that we can no longer celebrate His Pasch? What a ridiculous notion! Fear not! Have Faith in Him, the Bread of Life Who came down from heaven! "Ego sum panis vivus qui de caelo descendi." <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 aman Anna, nice post. it seems like people are side stepping the facts that we present to them and they pick up the 'What If' argument to take us off course. You can "What If" until your blue in the face if you guys wish, the Eucharist is and always will be the true Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ..still not convinced, go back to page one and read it again. I know that for some this truth is hard to swallow, just like in scriptures when some of the disciples left Jesus because of this same thing. My parents are also guilty of it, not really fully comprehending how we could be eating the flesh of Christ and drinking Christs Blood, to them it seems all to wierd. My dad even commented one time "I bet you have a hard time getting kids to drink it dont you, telling them its blood"..ignorance, its all it is. Refusing to believe what is shown to you time and time again. My parents are non practicing pentecostals, or at least my mom is. She is what I would call a typical prot, claims she knows Everything about the Bible and believes it 100%, until it says something that she doesnt believe, like "He who eats my flesh, and drinks my blood will have eternal life". Somehow, I think its too complicated for most to understand, unless your Catholic. Call it what you will, but I think Catholics are 'Called' to be Catholic. Why is it that we can understand, well maybe not understand as much as have faith in, the fact that when Christ said "This IS my body" that he really meant that. Its almost impossible for a Non Catholic to believe that, unless they were called to believe that. I dunno im rambling, its been waay hectic at work here and I finally got some free time so my fingers wont stop typing. Anyway, thats the shizzle. CatholicAndFanatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notbilln Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I don't realy have a coherent singular point just acouple of unrelated ones. 1) Jesus specifically used unleven bread as a way to show that he was taking the place of the the old tradition,that he through his death on the cross, reserection and true presence in the euchrist was the New covenent. So it IS important to use unleaven bread, rather then pizza. 2) Wine is more than alcoholic grape jucie. Any wine conosour will tell you as much. It has subltety, varies from year to year. Its quality is dependant upon the weather, soil condition, and fermentation process. It is the culmination of our toil. The scriptual references to wine, as some have mentioned, are numerous. I really think it is best to use wine. In choosing it rather then that whcih would be more convienent to us, we are actively saying that we are willing live our lives according to his will, rather then our own. 3) I have only 2 points, now that I think about it. 4) Actually, they make sence together. So forget waht I said at the begining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 A nickname for wine is "blood of the grape." That is because, in order to make wine, the grapes must be beaten, stomped on, crushed. You may see the parallel here, as Christ was beaten and crushed under the weight of the Cross, and taught us to use wine which would be transubstantiated into His Very Own Blood. Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy316 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Okay, I'm confused as to why this little "debate" is going on. If jas isn't Catholic, his communion is just a remembrance. Everyone is arguing things like, "Why would you belittle The Lord to a piece of pizza??" For him it's not The Lord!! If it's just a remembrance, why does it matter? I "remember" The Lord at every supper whether I'm eating spaghetti or chicken. Remembering is remembering. He's not claiming to have the Eucharist under the physical appearance of pizza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Okay, I'm confused as to why this little "debate" is going on. If jas isn't Catholic, his communion is just a remembrance. Everyone is arguing things like, "Why would you belittle The Lord to a piece of pizza??" For him it's not The Lord!! If it's just a remembrance, why does it matter? I "remember" The Lord at every supper whether I'm eating spaghetti or chicken. Remembering is remembering. He's not claiming to have the Eucharist under the physical appearance of pizza. The Catholic Mass is the body and blood. For him it IS a remembrance. Jesus is present spiritually for him. Jesus is present spiritually and physically for Catholics. (St. John 6) That is the difference. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 nippy (gotta love that name), whether or not jas et al think their communion is not jesus' body blood soul and divinity, the pizza comment is irreverent at best. The 2nd Commandment forbids making fun of holy things. Maybe they didn't know this. It makes one wonder. St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians (11:27): "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord." Melchesidech way back in Genesis offered up bread and wine (a pure, immaculate offering, the old Latin Mass says). Christ is a priest forever according to the order of Melchesidech (Hebrews 7:17). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 MC Just, never mind. Just pray a prayer of reparation for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy316 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Jesus is present spiritually for him. Well maybe Jesus doesn't want to be spiritually present under the accidents of pizza. That, or maybe he just wants everyone to have THE Eucharist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy316 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 (edited) **ignore** Edited October 3, 2003 by nippy316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 maybe he just wants everyone to have THE Eucharist. Yes, Jesus wants everyone to be Catholic. It is the Church that He built... but Jesus let's people make up their own minds... we are given freewill... we can ignore facts or we can embrace them. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 What if I told you that I believe Jesus is spiritually present with me every minute of every day, communion or otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Yes but He is physically present to us in the Eucharist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now