foundsheep Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 My Brother(pentacostal) and I (catholic) always have this discussion. He says it was really grape juice becuase jesus would not sin by sippin tha alcohol. I have always been taught and really believe "fermented" grapes contain alcohol. This is probably just an opinion question but I find it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 If it's fermented, it contains alcohol. Ask him where it says in the Bible that drinking alcohol is in and of itself sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 What difference does it make anyway? Isn't it all in what it represents? (speaking as someone who's had communion with mates with pizza shapes and coke cause that's all we had around) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 Im not downing anybody but some like to nit-pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 ,Oct 1 2003, 08:20 PM] What difference does it make anyway? Isn't it all in what it represents? (speaking as someone who's had communion with mates with pizza shapes and coke cause that's all we had around) Jesus celebrated the Last Supper with bread and wine. Once they're consecrated, they become the Body and Blood of Christ. There's no mere representation; it's truly the Lord's Body and Blood. So we must use worthy material. Common stuff like pizza won't suffice for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Grapes start to ferment immediately if not before you squish them. THe bacteria is on the skin of the grape. I have drunk pigeons in my yard every September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 i think it was alcoholic.... Jesus celebrated the Last Supper with bread and wine. Once they're consecrated, they become the Body and Blood of Christ. There's no mere representation; it's truly the Lord's Body and Blood. So we must use worthy material. Common stuff like pizza won't suffice for that. that's ridiculous... do you have the exact same bread that Jesus ate???? do you have the exact same batch of wine/grape juice that Jesus drank???? you think by putting a piece of coagulated milk on the bread that it will make it less holy???? When you take communion do you do it in remembrance of Jesus or do you think about how much holier you are because you bread was baked with special flour??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 that's ridiculous... do you have the exact same bread that Jesus ate???? do you have the exact same batch of wine/grape juice that Jesus drank???? you think by putting a piece of coagulated milk on the bread that it will make it less holy???? When you take communion do you do it in remembrance of Jesus or do you think about how much holier you are because you bread was baked with special flour??? Jesus used unleavened bread and grape wine. Therefore, we Catholics do the same. If Jesus didn't add things to what he used, then we're not to do so either. We don't treat Holy Communion as though it were a snack. It isn't! And the flour has nothing to do with it. If bread made from wheat and grape wine isn't used, no consecration happens. Communion isn't a symbol for us; it becomes Christ's true Body and Blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notbilln Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Where exactly in the bible does it say that drinking wine is a sin? Is that why Jesus' first miricle was to turn water into .. wine?!? That right there sorta kills his argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Jesus used unleavened bread and grape wine. Therefore, we Catholics do the same. If Jesus didn't add things to what he used, then we're not to do so either. We don't treat Holy Communion as though it were a snack. It isn't! And the flour has nothing to do with it. If bread made from wheat and grape wine isn't used, no consecration happens. Communion isn't a symbol for us; it becomes Christ's true Body and Blood. It's still not exactly the same. That's like saying Jesus drove a Ford so we all have to drive either fords or chryslers but not chevys. They are man made limitations based on what some dude thought would have been nice. If Jesus didn't add things to what he used, then we're not to do so either. So your absolutely sure that your unlevened bread doesn't have one little ingredient (preservative, msg, anti-caking agent, hair) that wasn't in the bread Jesus ate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 So your absolutely sure that your unlevened bread doesn't have one little ingredient (preservative, msg, anti-caking agent, hair) that wasn't in the bread Jesus ate? yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 It's still not exactly the same. That's like saying Jesus drove a Ford so we all have to drive either fords or chryslers but not chevys. They are man made limitations based on what some dude thought would have been nice. So your absolutely sure that your unlevened bread doesn't have one little ingredient (preservative, msg, anti-caking agent, hair) that wasn't in the bread Jesus ate? The Church has the authority given by God to decide what constitutes valid matter for Communion. God led the Church to determine what would be valid and what wouldn't be. It's not something men arbitrarily decided. And the bread for Communion is specially made with just flour and water -- nothing else. If a hair fell into the dough, however, it wouldn't be enough to invalidate the bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Does Grape Juice instead of wine make for an anemic Jesus during communion? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IXpenguin21 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 on completion of the miracle on holy thursday at the last supper, Jesus said, "do this in memory of me" not "change this to liven things up when you get bored after vadican 1 leaves you really really bored with Mass in the 20th century." we take our scripture and our acounts of Christ quite literaly. the bible paralles itself for us using bread in our sacrifice. jesus says he is the bread of life moses recieves bread from heaven jesus says he is the bread of life that came down from heaven (combining the 2) we use wine, not grape juice. Jesus was jewish. to the jews, wine is very important to their sacrifice of passover, the same sacrifice jesus was celebrating at the last supper. the jews wine was part of their covinent with God, and jesus tells us that the wine, transformed into His blood, is the NEW covinent, not the new beverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 (edited) jesus would not sin by sippin tha alcohol Ask you freind if sippin alcohol is sinful why does Paul say the following? Stop drinking only water, but have a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. (1 Tim 5:23) Edited October 2, 2003 by Cure of Ars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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