John Kerry on why he

[toledo_jesus]

Discuss?


"The New York Times reports that some Catholic archbishops are telling their church members that it would be a sin to vote for a candidate like you because you support a woman's right to choose an abortion and unlimited stem-cell research.

What is your reaction to that?"

KERRY: I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, as do many.

I believe that I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith.

I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor. And that's why I support that.

Now, I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade.

The president has never said whether or not he would do that. But we know from the people he's tried to appoint to the court he wants to.

I will not. I will defend the right of Roe v. Wade.

Now, with respect to religion, you know, as I said, I grew up a Catholic. I was an altar boy. I know that throughout my life this has made a difference to me.

And as President Kennedy said when he ran for president, he said, "I'm not running to be a Catholic president. I'm running to be a president who happens to be Catholic."

My faith affects everything that I do, in truth. There's a great passage of the Bible that says, "What does it mean, my brother, to say you have faith if there are no deeds? Faith without works is dead."

And I think that everything you do in public life has to be guided by your faith, affected by your faith, but without transferring it in any official way to other people.

That's why I fight against poverty. That's why I fight to clean up the environment and protect this earth.

That's why I fight for equality and justice. All of those things come out of that fundamental teaching and belief of faith.

But I know this, that President Kennedy in his inaugural address told all of us that here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own. And that's what we have to -- I think that's the test of public service.

[franciscanheart]

:irate: what more is there to say or do in reaction to that??

he is off his rocker!! im sorry but PEOPLE have rights and you can throw you fists around in the air all you want, thats your right, but as soon as it touches someone else.... well thats where your rights end.

this is not pushing religious views on someone. everyone has rights. everyone. a persons a person no matter how small. grrrr. :irate:

[shelly_freak]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 13 2004, 11:09 PM'] That's why I fight against poverty. That's why I fight to clean up the environment and protect this earth. That's why I fight for equality and justice. All of those things come out of that fundamental teaching and belief of faith. [/quote]
and thats why I see him as the best candidate

[StColette]

Maybe I should sit down with Mr. Kerry and give him a Bible lesson hehehe

[shelly_freak]

ok I better spell this out so people don't get mad and yell at me and tell me I'm a sinner and I'm a terrible person (I went through enough of that a couple weeks ago and almost left phatmass for good because of it).

While I do believe Kerry is the best candidate I will not be voting for him. This is because I believe Kerry's views on abortion are wrong and I know that as a catholic I should not vote pro-choice. I still can't vote Bush though seeing as I can't stand him and I find him so incredibly morally wrong. Yet this doesn't mean I will not vote it will just be 3rd party. I know who I vote for will not win but at least I know I didn't vote pro-choice and I didn't vote Bush but I also believe since I have the right to vote I must exercise this right.

that probably made no sense and was just blabber but its the best way I can explain it.

[toledo_jesus]

no, it made sense. I just would call everyone's attention to when Kerry said:
"I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, [b]as do many[/b]."
He's totally correct when he says that...to which I said "that doesn't make it right!" I got some looks for that one. Talking to the television...nono.

[Ash Wednesday]

Shelly, I found your post to be very honest and brave. You're going with conscience and what is objectively right instead of "feelings" by choosing not to vote for Kerry, and I salute you on this.

I agree with some of the things the democratic party stands for, but because of the moral issues, unfortunately it undercuts everything else, and that is frustrating. If so many Democrats didn't flunk the moral test, I would gladly vote for them.

I voted for Clinton in 96, and as a person, I still like the guy. Of course as a disclaimer, I was not very well informed about the Catholic role in voting and abortion, and I regret that decision. So if I did it again, even though I thought in some ways (not all!) Clinton was a good president, he can not and would not get my vote if I ever did that again.

Again, when we are able to split what we "feel" from what we know objectively and consciously is right and wrong, it will prove to be the wise thing to do, and I believe this is how the Holy Spirit guides us, because our feelings can mislead us.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 13 2004, 11:45 PM'] no, it made sense.  I just would call everyone's attention to when Kerry said:
"I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, [b]as do many[/b]."
He's totally correct when he says that...to which I said "that doesn't make it right!" [/quote]
You're right. You tell that television!

I think this is perhaps what Jesus is talking about with the "straight and narrow" and the "few." What is right is not a popularity contest, and usually not popular with "many..."

[toledo_jesus]

but we never hear that mentioned on television, do we?

[franciscanheart]

NOPE!! :angry:

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 14 2004, 12:18 AM'] but we never hear that mentioned on television, do we? [/quote]
Nope. Except maybe on the 700 Club?

For what it is worth, the talking heads actually felt that Kerry lost points when asked that. Probably because he looked uncomfortable, and yes, indecisive on the subject. Catholic or not, it's hard to really buy the "I'm a Catholic. I was an altar boy. But I don't agree with it" kind of rhetoric. It's confusing to a lot of people, maybe even moreso to people that aren't Catholic and outside of what goes on in the Church.

One could say Bush comes across as "pigheaded" with his beliefs to some, but you sure can't say he's indecisive. And he obviously doesn't believe in popularity contests.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote]I believe that I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. [/quote]

EVERY TIME Mr. Kerry votes for or against something, he is "legislating of trasfer"ing his beliefs to "another American citizen."

[aragorn]

Well, i was not happy with Kerry's response at all. I think it's wrong for either Bush or Kerry to act like they have power over abortion. They truly have extremely narrow influence over abortion. Abortion is an issue only around election time-- then it gets hidden away for 4 years until the next campaign.

It is virtually guaranteed that Roe v. Wade will stand no matter who is appointed to the high court. The body of judicial precedent is overwhelming, including the 2003 case Lawrence v. Texas which held that gays' right to practice sodomy is a fundamental privacy right. The Supreme Court *rarely* overturns itself, and overturning RvW would turn a whole body of law upside down.

At least Bush had the good sense to say, "There is no litmus test." Even though I think it's safe to say he DOES have a litmus test, it was smart of him to answer the question in the only responsible way. Point for him on that one.

Actually, Kerry's "as do many" comment is relevant in a representative democracy like the USA. The idea is that an elected official has a duty to represent the will of the citizens. Sorry guys, that's just how democracy works. Kerry was simply saying that he is bound to perform his role in a representative democracy. This prevents him, as he said, from legislating his article of faith onto someone who doesn't share that faith.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote]This prevents him, as he said, from legislating his article of faith onto someone who doesn't share that faith. [/quote]

Mr. Kerry constantly legislates taxes onto those unwilling to voluntarily give thier hard earned income to the government...

[aragorn]

[quote name='T-Bone' date='Oct 14 2004, 03:32 AM'] Mr. Kerry constantly legislates taxes onto those unwilling to voluntarily give thier hard earned income to the government... [/quote]
Oh, good example...

Do you think Christ would support a $90 Billion (per year) tax cut for the top 1%, who have average wealth of over $10 million each?? As if a million per year is not enough, they need $1.1 million to survive.

That's what Bush did. Super-rich people make most income on investments. Taxes on dividends are 9% now (down from ~30% under CLinton), and Bush wants to abolish them entirely next term. A GI in Iraq pays 12% income tax. Yes, a soldier scraping out $20k/yr pays a higher percentage tax than a millionaire. You can thank our great Christian president for this. If Bush wins and abolishes tax on dividends, you can expect multi-millionaires to pay practically zero income tax. Christ would be proud. And that's not even the worst of it-- the GOP wants to abolish the estate tax(!!). There's even a rightwing push to replace federal income tax with a national sales tax. [b]It should give you pause when Christians and millionaires fight side-by-side for the same political party.[/b]

Kerry wants to legislate on these multi-millionaires to force them to give up 30% of hard-earned stock dividends to help fund a social safety net for those of humble means. How dare he!

Earning stock dividends is "hard work". Ridiculous.

I am AFRAID that Bush serves his buddies (eg, Ken Lay of Enron, a "close personal friend" according to Bush), and drops some God references to take well-meaning Christians along for the ride. Well that's my opinion.

Edited October 14, 2004 by aragorn