Feminists For Life

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

Oik, all good points.

I think we are approaching this differently. I'm approaching it from an agnostic/athiestic/individualistic perspective.

Which is where most Americans are at this point.

You said that conversion happens through knowledge. Not so for St. Bernadette, for Blessed Jacinta, for St. Francis of Assisi, St. Paul.

A lot of people know about God, a lot of people know God. Few will choose.

Here's an extreme scenario: The murderer "knows" it's wrong to murder. That's why he hides. The thief "knows" it's wrong to steal. That's why he runs away. But they don't LIVE these truths. Which is a HUGE problem with Christians today. Just look at the number of Catholics who are pro-choice, pro-Kerry. So many Catholics receiving communion are living double lives. We want to put a dollar in the collection, grab our cracker, but we don't want to pray the Rosary, go to Confession or Adoration, or follow the Church's teaching when it's not in line with ours.

A great philosopher & debater could effectively convince anyone that he has 3 eyes. A good example is of how Descartes convinced a whole lotta people that God isn't real.

Only through prayer. Fr. Corapi was speaking about religious orders - active v. contemplative. And he said that it's so ironic that the CONTEMPLATIVE are actually the most active. That's where it all happens. That's where the conversion happens. Through prayer. He said we owe everything to those who have prayed for us, who have dedicated their lives to prayer. Only through prayer.

I am studying the life of St. Francis of Assisi and St. Therese. There is still so much to know about their lives, their thoughts, their ways, but I know this: keep it simple.

St. Francis said that knowledge puffs up. He said he only read the Bible ONCE & he flipped it to the verse that summed it all up: "To you knowledge of these mysteries has been given. To others, they must be told in parables." He refused himself & his brothers to have prayer books. St. Francis (who, revealed in a vision to one of his brothers, is sitting at the right hand of Jesus) passionately abandoned all knowledge. He said that when we meet God face to face, God will tell us, "Well done, good and faithful servant" because our prayers have led many to conversion. St. Francis of Assisi said that God will not praise us for our knowledge.

KNOWLEDGE through PRAYER

NOT PRAYER through KNOWLEDGE

BTW, good comments. Hopefully we can learn from each other.

I like www.feministsforlife.org because I can show it to my agnostic liberal hippie vegetarian friends who think that a woman has a right to choose.

[Oik]

All in All, we are using different words to say the same thing, so I agree that we agree.

My quote on knowledge:
[quote]Conversion happens through [i]knowlegde of [u]God and His Truth[/u][/i], prayer and love pour out from this source.[/quote]

What caused an atheist C.S. Lewis to convert to Christianity was 'knowledge of God.' I'm going to get really confusing here and say that knowledge of God (the only absolutly True knowledge) and prayer exist together, unseparated.

[quote]A great philosopher & debater could effectively convince anyone that he has 3 eyes.[/quote] I know you and I wouldn't be fooled, but to those out there, relativism is a sham and a lie.

Here's a tibit I found:

The spirit of Saint Francis de Sales

UPON THE KNOWLEDGE WHICH PUFFS UP.
You wish to know what St. Paul means when he says that knowledge puffs up and that charity edifies.[1] I imagine he means by the knowledge which puffs up, that which is destitute of charity and which consequently tends only to vanity. All those are vain, say the sacred Scriptures, who have not the knowledge of God;[2] and what is this knowledge of God if not the knowledge of His ways and of His will? It is the God of knowledge who teaches this knowledge to men; the science of the saints, the science which makes saints, the science of salvation, a science without which all else is absolute ignorance. He who thinks that he knows something and does not know how to save his soul, does not yet know what it is most important to know. Those who know many things without knowing themselves, and without knowing God in the manner in which even in this present life he can be known and desires to be known, resemble the giants in the fable, who piled up mountains and then buried themselves beneath them.

Do not, however, think for a moment that, in order to save our souls, or to be truly devout, we must be ignorant; for, as sugar spoils no sauce, true knowledge is in no wise opposed to devotion. On the contrary, by enlightening the understanding it contributes much to fervour in the will. Listen to what our Blessed Father says on this subject in his Theotimus: “Knowledge is not of itself contrary, but very useful to devotion. Meeting, they should marvellously assist one another; though it too often happens through our misery that knowledge hinders the birth of devotion, because knowledge puffeth up and makes us proud, and pride, which is contrary to all virtue, ruins all devotion. Without doubt, the eminent science of a Cyprian, an Augustine, a Hilary, a Chrysostom, a Basil, a Gregory, a Bonaventure, a Thomas, not only taught these Saints to value, but greatly enhanced their devotion; as again, their devotion not only supernaturalized, but eminently perfected their knowledge.” [i]-http://www.blackmask.com/thatway/books130c/7fran.htm#1_1_186[/i]