Feminists For Life

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

It's all in the title

www.feministsforlife.org

Ray's wife from Everybody Lives Raymond is the national spokesperson.

The average American thinks that being pro-choice is being pro-woman.

pro-life = pro-woman

Being a feminist doesn't mean we want to be like men!

[azaelia]

These people rule Women deserve better than abortion

[Oik]

FFL is against abortion, but for contraception.
Also, feminisim is sexism. Our Faith celebrates male and female, not manism and feminism. Feminisim seeks to separate men and women, while our Faith teaches us to embrace male and female as complimenting and one.

[Duc_In_Altum]

AfroNova,


[quote]Being a feminist doesn't mean we want to be like men! [/quote]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by this comment?

Edited October 12, 2004 by Duc_In_Altum

[jessinoelw]

[quote name='Oik' date='Oct 11 2004, 11:24 PM'] ...feminisim is sexism. Our Faith celebrates male and female, not manism and feminism. Feminisim seeks to separate men and women, while our Faith teaches us to embrace male and female as complimenting and one. [/quote]
I don't believe this is the type of feminism they are advocating. They stand for equal rights, equal opportunity, equal pay, fair treatment, end to domestic violence, etc.

--Jessica

[Ash Wednesday]

I don't think FFL is Catholic, so it wouldn't surprise me if they are permissive of contraception -- 90% of the modern west is, after all. I do think they offer an interesting perspective that might get the "modern woman" thinking, however.

[Ash Wednesday]

I think what AfroNova is getting at is the error of certain feminists that take on this idea that women ought to stamp out and deny their womanhood and feminity, and that "equality" means "being like men." People like that think men should be carrying babies, or better yet, make procreation all about test-tube babies, and they think that being a housewife is "degrading."

There is a book titled "What our mothers didn't tell us" that talks about just this sort of thing -- that this false feminism denies a woman's very nature.

[Sojourner]

Even though FFL advocates contraception, they have a lot of very strong, persuasive arguments that work well in getting people to think about their positions on abortion. I think it's great.

[Noel's angel]

BUT IT ADVOCATES CONTRACEPTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WRONG

[Sojourner]

I think I've misspoken on FFL's position on contraception. Here's what they say on the subject:

"Since FFL's mission is based on life beginning at conception, there is no FFL policy on contraception except when it presents a threat to a woman's health. Some FFL members support the use of contraception as long as there is no abortifacient effect, while others oppose it. Some oppose all or some forms of contraception for health reasons, others for religious reasons; others prefer natural methods to plan a family; and still others want to incorporate new medical technologies that track a woman's fertility to be used in conjunction with natural family planning methods. FFL's mission begins at conception, not before.

Our membership has a broad spectrum of opinion that reflects the diversity of opinions among the public."

[toledo_jesus]

sounds like they are doing the best they can with the circumstance being what they are. They are diverse enough to include women who practice or advocate contraception, but they acknowledge that some women don't believe in it. I'm encouraged by this. It's progress.

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

Wow.

It's a little disheartening to see how many phatmassers jumped to their own conclusions about FFL so fast.

Let's not be so quick to judge.

I posted this as a tool for us to use to reach the average college girl who isn't sure if there is a God, uses birth control, and kind of sort of thinks abortion is wrong.

It's just a tool, guys, not a statement of faith. The same way we can use the BUSH/CHENEY ticket as a tool and not as a statement of faith.

We can still glean fruits from those who have some of the truth.

Because we have the fullness of the truth.

[Lil Red]

well said, Afro

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Oct 12 2004, 01:25 PM'] BUT IT ADVOCATES CONTRACEPTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WRONG [/quote]
This is a poor way to evangelize and preach the Gospel.

This, and so many responses I have seen in Open Mic, have lacked the charity that should be innate to being in love with Jesus.

Ever heard that song that quotes Scripture: "It's your kindness, Lord, that leads us to repentance."

We will never lead anyone to Jesus if we point out all their faults. When Jesus met Mary Magdalene, He didn't tell her, "You know, you are a prostitute & that's gross. You probably have gonorrhea (sp?)." He basically said, "You know what you want something better, something more. Follow me."

And this is what he tells us. And this is what we should tell others.

NOT SCREAMING AT THEM LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WRONG

St. Bernadette & Mother Theresa BOTH said that their jobs were not to convert but rather to live the truth in love. Mother Theresa said that if you want to be a hindu then she will help you be a BETTER hindu. But most of those hindus converted.

Because conversion happens through love & prayer. Not through knowledge. These were also the sentiments of St. Francis of Assisi who refused himself & even his brothers of prayer books, Bibles, psalters, and breveries (sp?).

Knowledge puffs up. Charity builds up.

[Oik]

Here is a better link: [url="http://www.wf-f.org/"]Women for Faith and Family[/url].


[quote]They stand for equal rights, equal opportunity, equal pay, fair treatment, end to domestic violence, etc.[/quote]
Then why aren't they humanists? What makes them feminists? The major problem here is that you have an organization that singles out women, seeking to education them in a way that presents the topics as a problem that pertains mostly to women. This is incorrect, men and women must work together in all areas of life, playing different parts and roles to obtain Truth and justice for human beings.

Afro, I disagree on many points. [quote]Because conversion happens through love & prayer. Not through knowledge.[/quote]
Conversion happens thorugh knowlegde of God and His Truth, prayer and love pour out from this source.

[quote]This is a poor way to evangelize and preach the Gospel.[/quote] Preaching the Gospel is preaching Truth.

[quote]"It's your kindness, Lord, that leads us to repentance."[/quote]
Kindness demands justice. Justice demands Truth.

[quote]We will never lead anyone to Jesus if we point out all their faults. When Jesus met Mary Magdalene, He didn't tell her, "You know, you are a prostitute & that's gross. You probably have gonorrhea (sp?)." He basically said, "You know what you want something better, something more. Follow me."[/quote] ...and Saint Magdalene was told to sin no more. Noel wasn't saying that FFL was a group composed of sinners and adulterers, but pointing out an inconsistency in thier basic foundations. Peta uses the same excuse about reproduction. So does John Kerry, who claims he is personally opposed to abortion, but realizes that America is diverse.

[quote]St. Bernadette & Mother Theresa BOTH said that their jobs were not to convert but rather to live the truth in love. Mother Theresa said that if you want to be a hindu then she will help you be a BETTER hindu. But most of those hindus converted.[/quote] There has been previous discussion on whether or not Mother Teresa actually said that she wants people of other religions to be the best participant of thier religion that they can be. Actually, one of the main commands of our Faith is to spread the Gospel and make disciples of all nation (Matthew 28:19). "(Being)...a disciple require discipline. As you know, the saints all embraced discipline. The command to make disciples of all nations in the call and command to conversion of the world and all its peoples.

[quote]It's just a tool, guys, not a statement of faith.[/quote] The church is better equipped than a non-sectarian, non-partisan women's organization. The Church doesn't play politics, so voting for a president is often the lesser of two evils, since no alternative is available.

I'd just like to say that I'm not riding you. I am poitning out the inconsistancies in FFL. I think that, in the long run, they do more to damage the deteriorating relationship between man and woman than they do to help. They consistantly separate human issues between male and female, leaning more on informing and targeting females. This only complicates the situation. All issues that FFL address involve men and women directly and the consequnces of those issues weigh down equally on males and females of society.