those who are

[dairygirl4u2c]

I am wondering about those who know the RC faith to be true yet go against it. Of course, no one but God knows, but how much do you all suppose this occurs? And any other ideas pertinent to this too.

I'd think that most who are not Catholic do not go against something they know to be true. I suppose there are a lot of inherently believing catholics in a wreched state and a whole lot of lukewarm ones that are just lazy or prideful.

Going against what they know true is the technical criteria for grave danger? It's not simply hearing of the RC faith that makes one culpible correct? (those lazy ones probably are pretty ignorant anyway) I'd think those who'd go againt it would prett much be in hell because of psychological reason if not anything else if they are going against their convictions. It just seems odd that one would go against themselves instead of simply changing themselves.

thanx

Edited October 11, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c

[point5]

Well I think that it is something that can happen easily. Someone might find truth in the RC but fail to abide by it or convert becuase of many other pressures....family....friends....or maybey they just personal don't like some of the teachings of the church although they can find no error in them.

The situation comes into play when someone actually studies church teaching and history, and finds no fault in the actual teachings and doctrines, yet refuses to accept the church as true, and rather remains in a church that teaches contrary to the Catholic Church.

[CatholicforChrist]

We could just go by what the Church has said: Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. No qualifications needed; speculation serves to undermine this doctrine, not help in its understanding; besides, none of the speculation is actually taught by the Church, so it is murky water.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

People refuse to convert out of laziness. People sometimes just don't want a religious body telling them what to believe (an idea that is painted badly in today's world of "relativism"), even if they agree.

[dairygirl4u2c]

Those people are guilty of laziness. It seems many present the same case against the Catholic Church and people don't convert away because of laziness. Would it be that they too could be damned for their laziness on the principle of fairness? ie just because they happen to be catholic, they are still lazy?

Anyway, gettin off the main point of wonderin how many fall into that. Perhaps we can't give an adequate apprasial to such a general ? so maybe it's a goodo thing to steer the thread a little. If you all think that, then go ahead an repond to the first paragraph.

[Guest Aluigi]

one does not need to consciously know and believe that the Catholic Church was made by Christ as necessary for salvation to be culpable of the sin of rejecting the Church. it cannot be known who is truly culpable for the sin of not being a member of the Catholic Church. Thus you, dairygirl, for remaining outside of the Catholic Church are putting your eternal soul in jeapordy. A protestant who purposefully fails to seek the truth about the Church is putting his eternal soul in jeapordy. Now, could you be inculpably ignorant that the Church is necessary for salvation? yes you could, even though you've been told it you can still have inculpable ignorance to it. but then again you might not and thus would be committing a grave sin. a protestant who does not seek the truth about the Church might be inculpably ignorant of the Church, they also might be CULPABLY ignorant (if by choice of their will they turned away from the Truth)

one cannot apply and know the fate of anyone's soul. never should anyone presume someone is damned to hell, nor should they assume they are going to heaven

[Guest Aluigi]

btw, SLOTH (laziness) is one of the 7 deadly sins

[dairygirl4u2c]

Okay well I'll put it this way. If for instance you are sure that the Catholic Church is not true and yet you remain in it, you would be guilty of laziness for not converting out correct? (disregarding the Catholic Church's notions that they're guilty for other heresies they practice within the context of the Catholic Church such as receiving communion)

[Guest Aluigi]

if you remain in the Catholic Church while your conscience objects to it, you may sin against your conscience (even an erring conscience is morally binding). however, the solution to the erring conscience is not to follow it either. if your conscience tells you the Catholic Church is wrong, the correct course of action is to attempt to correct your conscience by studying more deeply into the Catholic Church and convincing yourself. if you simply remain in the Church while believing it is wrong, your faith is in vain and you are sinning against your conscience. perhaps you are also slothful if you are remaining in simply because it is more conveinient. it would not be morally right to LEAVE the Catholic Church under any circumstances, however. but it can be morally wrong to remain in the Catholic Church if you cease to believe/attempt to follow the teachings of the Catholic Church.