the lumberjack Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Luther didn't want to split from the Church, he wanted to fix the corruption and errancy that ran rampant thru the Catholic Church... can God not use ONE man to change many things? and if Luther was the man that God wanted to use to TRY to correct the Catholic Church, then there's nothing that anyone can do or say to convince me or any other BIBLE believing Christian out there otherwise. the Catholic Church didn't listen, and look where it is now...trying to keep its members, that flood out to be either lost in there own sin, or come to realize that God's plan is truly a joyful life and walk... trying to point the finger in another direction will not dissuade me from the topic, thess...this is not a topic on salvation, its about the mixing of the Catholic Church and whatever else it uses to attempt to propagate itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Lumberjack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude! where have you been??? I can't believe I just read one of your posts. dang. I'm tempted to respond to your post but I don't want to say hi after all this time by debating. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 BROTHER!!!!!! its all good...just good to see you back too....MAN!!! God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Nov 2 2004, 01:47 PM'] Lumberjack you are only decieving yourself. Luther lamented at the end of his life: “There are now as many theologies as there are heads”. Now do you suppose he would have said this at the beginning of his days as a priest? No, it was in lament for the way things had changed since the start of the reformation. Yes there are Catholics who disagree with the teachings of the Church. But the teachings are well defined and those who disagree with them are just separating themselves from the truth. Two Protestants can disagree on whether baptism is neccessary for salvation and be completely withing the "pale of orthodoxy" as Hank Hanagraph calls it. Now if it is in fact neccessary for salvation then how can one be orthodox for teaching that it is not neccessary? Now your next step of course will be to try and prove it is neccessary. Well the other side that says this tends to say that it is then salvation by works (forgetting that it is the action of the Holy Spirit that actually does the cleansing of the soul of which the water is only a symbol). So then how can the Lutheran, believing it's neccessity be any better than the Galatian who required circumcision. By the way I sure hope you read my post above and check in on the Acts 15 thread as I challenged you to do. I would love to see you over there. Blessings Thess [/quote] My friend... Think of Albie and Pot.... now, meet Lumberjack. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 "My friend... Think of Albie and Pot.... now, meet Lumberjack." His face does look familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I'm neither of those gentlemen (I think they're guys????)... I'm a Protestant Monster...or at least thats what I've been called around these parts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Are you here to talk or complain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 i think he's just being who he be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 cmom...I agree with mulls. and to answer your question, what would Luther have said when asked that same question? I think he would've said,"I'd LIKE to talk, but there's just TOO much wrong." and now...I think he'd just run in horror of whats happened. eg Fatima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Nov 3 2004, 04:27 PM'] cmom...I agree with mulls. and to answer your question, what would Luther have said when asked that same question? I think he would've said,"I'd LIKE to talk, but there's just TOO much wrong." and now...I think he'd just run in horror of whats happened. eg Fatima. [/quote] Lumber, You just prove that you don't know anything about Fatima. It's a shame you must base your "faith" on bashing ours. Why do you think that is? Especially seeing that every prot faith is an offshot of ours... hmmm.... Acts 20:29-30. [b] Timoty 3:14 [/b] But you, [b][u]remain faithful [/u][/b]to what you have learned and believed, [u][b]because you know from whom you learned it[/b][/u], Ok... Who did I learn (1) if from? Who did they learn (2) it from? Who did they learn (3) it from? And who did they learn (4) it from? and so on.... until I get to the first century. That is who I should listen to. "We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all." ~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John Hmmm... Where did Luther learn about Christ? Hmmm... Luther was a Catholic Priest.... what does that mean since we are to remain faithful to what we have learned because from whom we learned it? Was Luther faithful to what he learned? Hmmm... Calvin... Where did Calvin learn of Christ? Hmmm... His father worked as a lay administrator in the service of the local bishop, sent him to the University of Paris in 1523 to be educated for the priesthood but later decided that he should be a lawyer.... hmmm.... So Calvin also learned about Christ from the Catholic Church, but became a lawyer? Then started a religion? Sounds like a money making scam to me. "From whom did he learn it?" Was Calvin Faithful to what he learned? [b]1 Corin 11:2[/b] I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. What traditions have been handed on? Gotta go back to 33 AD and start there to know. [b]St. Matt 16:18[/b] "And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock (Kephas) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it." [b]19 [/b]I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." [b]John 21:15 [/b] When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." Christ said that the Church was built on Peter and would never be overcome. This makes our job a little easier because we can cross off all churches that don't claim that they were built on Peter. Where does that leave us? Learn to study and think. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 e.g. Fatima, Yes, the horror of it all. The mother of our lord asking people to pray, reflecting on her son's life, fast, repent, and do penance for the sins of the world. Horror of horrors what tangled webs we weave. We certainly wouldn't want to reflect on her son's life and all now would we. Is sarcasm allowed on this board? I got booted off another one for that. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 [quote]and now...I think he'd just run in horror of whats happened.[/quote] You're telling me. He would be entirely disgusted at how far Protestantism has departed from orthodoxy. But this is inevitable as long as private judgement is the rule of thumb which was a force that Luther quite ignorantly unleashed. If here today, Luther would only find the comfort of the gospel in the very same Catholic Church he helped to reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I think that if Luther were alive today he would have remained or returned to the Catholic Church. Why you ask? Because he would have found the internet and eventually find Phatmass and then Ironmonk and the rest of the people on this forum would show him the light. What a happy thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 [quote]He would be entirely disgusted at how far Protestantism has departed from orthodoxy.[/quote] I agree with that. [quote]If here today, Luther would only find the comfort of the gospel in the very same Catholic Church he helped to reform.[/quote] I disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 [quote name='Justified Saint' date='Nov 3 2004, 02:50 PM'] You're telling me. He would be entirely disgusted at how far Protestantism has departed from orthodoxy. But this is inevitable as long as private judgement is the rule of thumb which was a force that Luther quite ignorantly unleashed. If here today, Luther would only find the comfort of the gospel in the very same Catholic Church he helped to reform. [/quote] the church he helped reform? is this why Luther spent the rest of his life in anguish? ------------ and cmom, I can think very well, and am taught by strong Brothers in Christ. I do not base my faith off bashing anyone else's. if you follow Christ, good. in following Christ, I praise only the Triune God, no one or thing else...in prayer, adoration, supplication, whatever.... Christ had a relationship with the Father, which I do as well, thru Him. the apostles? they ONLY PRAYED to Christ...so shall I. I need not the intercession of anyone else that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be in Heaven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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