cmotherofpirl Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 (edited) d Edited October 29, 2004 by ICTHUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 ICTHUS, whenever I read your posts the only words that come to my mind to describe them are ad-hominem and other kinds of hate rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 (edited) "We all know that the true Gospel, when preached effectively, demands metanoia - repentance from sin and living a new way of life in the light of Christ's Truth. I would suggest that the problems with immorality and general false religion within some parts of the Church of Rome is indicitave of a much deeper problem with the Gospel they preach. " First of all I will agree with you that the comment about using reason against you was out of line. We all reason based on how we were taught and how we understand. While I do not agree with some of your conclusions, nevertheless I have come to know that all men use reason and to truly understand Catholicism one must truly be a Catholic. Therefore if you are not I leave the juding of that up to God alone as to how you are using the mental facalties he has given you. I apologize for my brother though I will say I have made similar statements to others in the past and apologize for them as well. As for your point about the Gospel they preach, I will grant you a half a point against the preachers themselves. Many today preach a watered down Gospel. Sin is rarely mentioned in many of the parishes. Some even embrace homosexuality. We are told in the scriptures that there will be false teachers among us and that men will be decieved by them. Peter's letters I believe as well as the book of Acts. It is difficult enough for men to come to a true knowledge of Christ when the Gospel is preached well for we are told that even then some of the seed will fall on rocky ground and not even begin to grow while some will produce shallow Christians who sprout up and die. Then the false teachers will take some, being those seeds which sprouted but were chocked out by the weeds. So even if the Gospel is preached well, which it is in many parishes and by many priests in the Catholic Church these things will happen. So I will grant you a point for saying the Gospel must be preached with fidelity to the truth, saying the hard things, but I cannot grant you a point for saying that because people are led astray by the false teachers that this is some sort of reflection or apologetic arguement against the Catholic Church. Biblically it just doesn't hold. There were plenty of problems in the early Church with the very converts that Paul and the rest of the Apostles preached to. Read 1 Cor 5,6 and Galatians, and Revelations 2 & 3. It seems likely that the people spoken of here were holding on to false ideologies and sinful behavior of their past as well. Now was there something wrong with the Gospel that the Apostles preached because of the sinful behavior and the scandal. No. It was just the seeds falling on various types of soil and withering in the heat of daily life and temptation and the fallen nature of man. For those false teachers or the ones that water down the faith and avoid saying the hard things, Jerimiah 3 and 33 tell us that those teachers will recieve their due. Ezekiel 3:17-19 "Son of man, I have appointed you a watchman to the house of Israel; whenever you hear a word from My mouth, warn them from Me. "When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. "Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself. Blessings Edited October 29, 2004 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Way to go Nathan!!!! Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Justified Saint' date='Oct 29 2004, 12:21 AM'] ICTHUS, whenever I read your posts the only words that come to my mind to describe them are ad-hominem and other kinds of hate rhetoric. [/quote] Did it ever occur to you that this might be brought on as a result of the poor attitudes of arrogant people such as Ironmonk and yourself? Edited October 29, 2004 by ICTHUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 I should point out to Good Friday that the druidic society that the Abp. of Canterbury belongs to is a literary society... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Also, Saint, what do you make of the defense I provided of Luther's 'anathematizing' reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Only Charity needs to happen below this...there are more Christian ways to present the above posts. Bluntness is good, but everything can be said out of love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 [quote]Did it ever occur to you that this might be brought on as a result of the poor attitudes of arrogant people such as Ironmonk and yourself?[/quote] I think you just proved my point. Besides, I hardly ever feel the need to respond to things you have written, and only do so when your endless anti-Catholic rants need to be humbled. As far as Luther is concerned, it turns out that even the seemingly regenerate man can have a very shaky grasp of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 This thread has gotten off topic. Icthus, I would like to see you address my post above, or anyone else who would like to address it, you are welcome also. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0RK4JP2 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Roman Catholicism infers paganism in some of its practise but main-stream protestantism doesn't...hmmm. You could reverse that equation and say paganism infers Catholicism but protestantism does [infer paganism]. Does it sound logical? No. Why? One [Paganism] is naturalism, the other [Catholicism etc] is supernaturalism. It is however common to note that pagans do try to infiltrate Catholic culture, viz, through the central place of all Catholics, the church. So your theory may be a mix-up with serious pagans trying to undermine the Church. E.g, the practise of bowing before a statue could be considered worship if you thought naturalistically, ie, like a pagan, whereby this thought process began not in the Church but by pagans themselves. Don't you think, therefore, you could equally theorise that pagans are inferring paganism in the Catholic Church and not so much in the protestant Churches because of what pagans may decide to do, viz, bring down their existential opponent, the grand-daddy of all supernaturalistic religions - THE CATHOLIC CHURCH! JMJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Icthus, This is your thread and I have addressed your issue twice with much effort and detail. Rather than engage in the conversation you started you have choosen to get in to a spitting match with JS. Could you address my posts. Blessings Thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Oct 29 2004, 05:57 PM'] Did it ever occur to you that this might be brought on as a result of the poor attitudes of arrogant people such as Ironmonk and yourself? [/quote] Ring ring: Kettle: Hello? Pot: Hey this is Pot! You are black!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Icthus, it appears as if people keep pointing the finger at OTHER religions and cults, instead of addressing your question directly... "Well they (fill in the blank with the cult you wish) did it/ do it too/first!!!" when, if you look at the nation of Mexico, which was/IS FULL of idolatry, the way that the Catholic Church got a foothold when the Spanish ORIGINALLY came over was to identify thir pagan gods with the saints of the Catholic Church... "Oh!! the mother god?? yeah! thats Mary!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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